Hello FT,

Well we agree on your final point, which makes it even less likely to call the Iraqi War a "Crusade."

Hello Rusty,

Yep, there's a lot of bad and ugly, and too little good. But I do believe that you and I could be wearing turbans right now if it weren't for those battles. The Siege of Vienna was one key fight that kept the Muslims from storming the center of Europe.

Anyway, have a great weekend.

I believe you that he said it was a Crusade, and as far as "God" telling GW to invade Iraq, I'l take your word for it. Still doesn't make it a Crusade.  That doesn't mean that He did tell GW anything about invading.

How can you have a Crusade with a secular armed forces? 

Hello FT,

Actually, I'm saying there ARE Muslims in the U.S. military, and they would be shocked, shocked, I say, to hear you claim that they are going on a Crusade against a Muslim country.

Since when do you hang on George Bush's every word? :-}

Can you demonstrate where Muslims and athiests have banded together with Christians before to defeat other Muslims to install a Christian presence?

Sure people with different beliefs can band together- but it don't make it a CRUSADE. 

Maybe some atheists, if they were given a good deal- but Muslims joining Christians to defeat fellow Muslims.....

That's a stretch even George Bush couldn't pull off.

Well for one thing saying that it's not a crusade because other people besides christians volunteer to go into the army is not quite true in my opinion. People of different beliefs can join together to fight what they percieve as a greater evil.  Here is an interesting video on the Crusades.   http://youtube.com/watch?=l...   If that link only takes you to youtube just type in A Clear View of the Crusades.

Hello Sandwichh, great post full of common sense with history added to fill it out.  And it doesn't hurt that you agree with me!  haha! Finally someone who sees the way I do on this!

However, I do enjoy seeing the opposing points of view. Makes me think and exercise the brain a bit.

FT, please demonstrate how George Bush rallied all the Christian leaders to send their young men and women to go and fight in the name of Christianity and defend the Christians in.... Bagdad.

Which bishops, cardinals, and dioceses sacrificed to send their youths?

Also, explain why so many atheists, agnostics, and Muslims went to fight there IF, as you say, this was a Crusade.

Finally, please show where Catholic rule is being established in Bagdad and Afghanitstan- at least with the building of Catholic Churches by what appears to be the American Army, Crusaders that they are.

Unless you can do this, it's ludicrous to keep insisting the Iraqi War is a Crusade.

I know what an atheist is.

Communism is officially atheistic, and under Stalin, anyone entering a Catholic Church was to be sent to a labor camp or shot dead. I have contacts in Vladivostock who say that in the 1930s villagers were shot dead  in their front yards in front of their families for just saying a rosary.  They still remember the last priest they had who was executed by Stalin's men.

Now the state has given them back their Church, Most Holy Mother of God Catholic Church in Vladivostock. They have been rebuilding the culture there, after 60 years of godless atheism left a 90% divorce rate and a 75% alcoholism rate.

I've heard you're "good" Catholic story of Hitler before.  Sorry, good Catholics don't imprison priests or kill them for teaching Church doctrine, even if it goes against their personal lifestyle and philosophy.

Hitler once said, "Providence called me, a Catholic, to have done with Catholicism.  Only a Catholic can destroy Catholicism." Questions and Answers, by Pope Benedict XVI , p. 7.

Yea, a 'good' Catholic.

Wait a minute.   People keep saying HItler was saying he was a good Catholic.

When Hitler went on his nut job way he DID NOT say he was a Catholic. He did  go to Catholic school but when he grew up he went away from that position and said so in his book. He moved in the way of Darwinism and proved it by wanting the great Aryian breed. Karl Marx calling himself a Capitiaist does not make him a Capitalist.

Hitler WAS always facisnated by the great things of power in the biblical teachings and  tried to pursue them JUST IN CASE but it really is amazing how people say Hitler was a Christian as he did his devil ways. Many people were raised and taught as younger people in the Christian faith but turned away later. It goes without saying that Hitler did turn away from Christian teachings. That makes you NOT A CHRISTIAN.  Saying that Hitler was a Christian is a bad arguement and it really is amazing the type of things people use to go against Christianity to justify their own doings.

The Crusades were put under way because of the request from the Christians being set upon by the Muslims and they needed rescuing.

No, I am a Baptist, Southern that is. Not the best Christian I will admit, but I can tell the difference between Hitler and Mother Terresa saying they are Christians. Like daddy said, listen to what they say but pay close attention to what they actually do.

About like Obama saying he is a Conservative, or even a  Centrist.

Hello Freethinker,

Interesting comments.

As far as George Bush saying it's a crusade, my neighbor says he has a crusade against lazy people collecting welfare, but that doesn't make it a religious call to arms.

If you read my post??? I discussed Constantinople, and I also said twice, I believe, that what was done was inexcusable, which would come close to your comments that it's not justified. The Crusades could have been conducted without the killing of innocents and pillaging.

True repentance and forgivness bring healing. Christians could still be moaning about the sack of Rome in the 5th century, or the attacks by the Vikings in the 9-11th centuries. Worse, we could still be trying to get revenge for the raping, the murdering, and the theivery. Some cultures out there are still exacting revenge for deed done centuries ago.

You state: "The only reason people could feel justified in doing something so horrible is that they were brainwashed into believing they were doing it for  a higher good-their God! "

And what God did Stalin or the athiest leaders of today's Communist China believe in to commit the horrendous crimes against humanity?  More than 43,000,000 million dead by Stalin alone doesn't sound like an atheist paradise.

Or does it?