Helpful government
Government from local to national is deciding what is "best" for us. California wants to put remote control thermostats in homes because the government knows best. California has decided that children cannot be home schooled unless the parent has a teaching certificate because the government knows best. Mississippi has a bill pending in the legislature that fat people (as defined by the state) cannot be served in restaurants because the government knows best. Texas tells people they cannot play eight liner machines that pay out too much because the government knows best. The United States government tells us what time it is because the government knows best. I'm tired of the government telling me what is best. I want to return to the days when I was allowed to decide for myself what is best.
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thewaywardwind - > Helpful government -> John Hagee apologizes
John Hagee apologizes
I saw a story in the Houston Chronicle about John Hagee, the end-of-the-world preacher from San Antonio.  He's now apologizing to the Catholic Church (and, by extention, its members) for calling them whores and apostates.  It is obvious that the only reason he issued a luke warm apology is that he realized the insults would make him look bad.  This guy is the one who is known as a spiritual advisor to John McCain.  He could do as much harm to McCain's run for president as Obama's preacher did to him.  While Hagee has the First Amendment right to speak, he really should keep his big mouth shut and stop insulting people who might be inclined to vote for the guy he endorsed.  He should remember the old adage that it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.  Hagee is a fool.
Tags: Hagee, hate speech
posted by thewaywardwind on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 at 08:15 AM
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posted by maryann on May 16, 2008 at 10:01 PM

I read this today, and I thought it would be interesting to those following this blog entry.

Bill Donohue of the Catholic League,  an Irish bulldog by anyone's standards, embraced the likewise stalwart and aggressive Hagee in a demonstration of Christian brotherhood, at least for many Christians. Bill is know for his big mouth and his even bigger passion for going after those who libel the Catholic Church, yet when he says the "case is closed" he means it. He also has a big heart for Christ, and Christ's message.

From "Donohue of Catholic League Meets Rev. John Hagee

By Deal W. Hudson
5/16/2008

Inside Catholic (www.insidecatholic.com)

.......The conversation lasted about 45 minutes -- Hagee had to get back to the UN for his evening speech. During that time Hagee and Donohue affirmed their not only the reconciliation but also their future partnership on matters of importance to both them: life, marriage, family, and support for Israel.

Donohue said, "Pastor, you are my friend from this point forward and nothing's going to change that. We have our theological differences but we Catholics and Evangelicals need to work together -- that is the liberals worse nightmare."

The Hagees couldn't have agreed more with Donohue, and they talked at length about getting more Catholic support for Christians United for Israel. Donohue made it clear he shared their concern for supporting and defending the existence of Israel against Islamic extremism.

Hagee rose to leave, and he held out his hands and said "Let us pray." We prayed in the style I learned as Southern Baptist growing up in Texas. It's amazing how quickly it all came back to me as we prayed for unity among ourselves and for charity in all that we do.

As we were leaving, a reporter from the San Antonio Express called Donohue for interview. Donohue did the interview as we stood there. It was obvious that Donohue's report on the meeting was not what the reporter wanted to hear. When the reporter asked if Donohue was trying to help John McCain, I thought the answer was unassailable: "If I am trying to help John McCain why would I have called Rev. Hagee anti-Catholic in the first place?"

What can you say to that? The answer is "nothing."

The meeting of John Hagee and Bill Donohue may have started something that will create important repercussions in the months and years to come. "

I totally agree with the statement that Evangelicals and Catholics need to work together. We have so much in common, and there is so much out there that we can target together for the good of the "church" or the Body of Christ and ultimately for all of God's children.


posted by Riverboat on May 16, 2008 at 12:33 AM

I disagree with Robert's assessment of Hagee and "used-car salesmen" type. As a careful observer of forensics, I must say Hagee is a leader in the speaking venue.

Now, as far as theology goes, I'll take the parish priest, however limited his public speaking ability may be.

 

posted by KennethSchustereit on May 14, 2008 at 11:04 PM

When you get right down to it most of what the Bible says would be considered hate speech. A football coach who took a knee out of respect for his players who were praying was sued and accused of "destructive" conduct in front of the players. A student who wore a cross on his t-shirt on a Gay Lifestyle celebration day at a high school was accused of hate speech!

John Hagee has never indulged in hate speech. He has simply done what he was anointed to do. Preach the word of God from the Bible. It takes someone with a heart for it to listen to him and understand that he is not judging he is being a watchman on the wall from the book of Ezekeil. If you don't have the heart-I'll call it the anointing to hear Hagee you probably shouldn't listen to him at all!

I can best be described as an Evangelical, Spirit-filled, Zionist Christian. I understand Hagee. There are a couple of points I disagree with him on but I'd have no problem calling him Pastor. He hates bigotry and prejudice! He hates homosexuality but he loves homosexuals. He hates the sin but loves the sinner.

As a student of escatology, I would not have backed down and apologized! The scripture backs what he said. I love all Catholics and I still would not have gone against scripture.

posted by KennethSchustereit on May 14, 2008 at 03:57 PM

I'm not saying the Catholic Church is the whore. I just repeated what the Bible says about the whore. That's exactly what Hagee does. Hagee doesn't hate or revile homosexuals, he just tells people exactly what the Bible says about homosexuals. I know that there are good Christians who attend the Catholic Church and I have friends and had a family member who was homosexual. I do believe what the Bible says. 

posted by CG23Sailor on May 14, 2008 at 02:22 PM

thewaywordwind: "CG23Sailor...Those liberal/conservative labels don't fit me."

I never called you a Liberal. I stated "as much as liberals WANT you to, you cannot."

saying that liberals want you to do something is not the same as say that you ARE a liberal.

I was speaking to you concerning liberals, not calling you one.

posted by maryann on May 14, 2008 at 01:19 PM

Great topic.

I think Hagee showed Christian charity to admit he was wrong in calling the Catholic Church the "whore of Babylon."

That is a reference by both Christians and Jews to the Roman government, which resided in Rome until the Roman Empire fell.  After Christianity was legalized, there was no more need for the codeword for Rome, and the term disappeared until is was resurrected in the 16th century.

For those who persist in calling the Vatican or Rome the Whore of Babylon, it's just more anti-Catholic propaganda left over from the Reformation days. 

When someone apologizes, we're called to forgive. As a Catholic, I think that Hagee's words were sincere.

posted by thewaywardwind on May 14, 2008 at 11:59 AM

Okay, Hagee isn't a spiritual advisor for McCain.  I delighted to find that out.  I was under the impression there was a relationship between the two.  Still, If I was McCain, I'd distance myself from Hagee as far as the east is from the west.

Kenneth...One of the wonderful things about this country is that everyone is free to exercise his religion and has the freedom of speech to speak about it.  That being said, I can think of some people who just might get upset if you call the Catholic Church a whore it their presence.  You have the right to say it, but you might get a fat lip in return. I thought Hagee was supposed to be a smart man.  Why would he say anything so provocative and inflamatory?  I don't believe he mis-spoke or was misunderstood.  He said what he obviously believes and has shown himself to be a hypocrit by apologizing for saying what he believes.  If he thinks the Catholic Church is a whore, then he should be man enough to stand behind what he said.  About the best he can hope for is that people think his brain has been fried from spending too much time in the sun in Israel.

Mike...I didn't see what Hagee said about gays, but I think I can guess.  I doubt it was very flattering.  I wouldn't expect him to apologize for those statements because it is still socially acceptable to exhibit anti-gay bigotry.  Anti Catholic bigotry is frowned on.

CG23Sailor...Those liberal/conservative labels don't fit me.  Neither my right nor my left knee jerks.  I have been accused of being both depending on the conversation.  I consider myself a libertarian. 

posted by roberttx on May 14, 2008 at 11:15 AM

No comment Sailor.

But if he needs to attack the Catholic church to make himself better or generate some funds, so be it.

posted by CG23Sailor on May 14, 2008 at 11:05 AM

RobertTx: "Hagee just screams 'used car' salesman type."

 

ALL Religious leaders of what is described as 'MEGA-Churches' and televangelists  scream used car salesman

 

posted by roberttx on May 14, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Hagee just screams 'used car' salesman type.

He's got himself in trouble several times with his HS, trying to recruit / play illegal players. Not very Christian like.

If you ask me this was nothing more than a publicity stunt on his part.
posted by Mike on May 14, 2008 at 09:47 AM

While it's true McCain sought the endorsement of John Hagee(showing poor judgment) the Reverend is not John McCain's Spiritual adviser, he just represents a block that John McCain needs in the upcoming election.John Hagee issued a public apology, because he knows this issue will come up again,as soon as the Democrats settle on a nominee. It's called political pandering.

BTW notice John Hagee did not apologize for his bigoted remarks on homosexuality.

posted by KennethSchustereit on May 14, 2008 at 09:42 AM

Matt. 5:22 ...But he that shall say "thou fool!" shall be in danger of hell fire. The Lord God is the only being allowed to call anyone a fool. Man can refer to himself as a fool but he shall not call anyone else a fool! I do believe Hagee was incorrect in backing down from what scripture indicates pretty clearly. The "whore" is described clearly in the Word. It's location is described.

I don't agree with the "by extension" remark. There are many Catholics whom I will see in heaven. Being a Zionist Christian and a longtime follower of Hagee, I believe what he has to say.

I don't agree with Hagee on McCain! Neither McCain, Obama, or Clinton are fit to shine the shoes of Ron Paul or Alan Keyes. McCain is a liberal and any one of those three should make Democrats happy. This is a win-win for liberals. 

posted by CG23Sailor on May 14, 2008 at 09:12 AM

umm you got one thing wrong.

 

Hagee is NOT John McCain's spiritual Advisor.

He is nothing more than a High profile preacher who chose to publicly endorse McCain for President.

Trying to draw a comparison  between Hagee/McCain and Wright/Obama is wrong.

HAGEE: Endorsed McCain for President

WRIGHT: Endorsed Obama for President, Was his personal pastor, Mentor, Spiritual Guide, Confidant, Like an Uncle to him, for over 20 years.

 

You CANNOT make a comparison in the relationships.

as much as liberals WANT you to, you cannot.

but when does a little thing like FACTS stop a liberal?

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