http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925 The recent issue of Times had an interesting article titled “The New Patriotism” by Richard Stengel.  The author said patriotism has always been the most abstract of American values.  Conservatives and liberals have been arguing the definition of patriotism for years, even in our local forum.  Republicans say that they hold that mantel; accusing the Democrats of being ashamed of America.  Democrats say Republicans wrap themselves around the flag and prevent America from living up to its ideals.  Of course both sides exaggerate their stance.  We should accept our country's greatness, but we must realize what it takes to create and sustain greatness.  Torture, civil liberties, and habeas corpus come to mind. The flag pin is considered to be symbolism by liberals, but that could be the difference between winning and losing an election.  Perception matters and conservatives know that. The author went onto say, conservatives’ grade on a curb when it comes to evaluating America.  They know America has its faults, but they compare us to other nations, and they feel like we are the still the greatest.  Liberals like to accept the fault, correct, and become better for it.  Conservatives continue to follow the Reagan "Morning in America"  theme with the image of a paperboy running his route, the mother watching her daughter get married in church ,and  the elder gentleman hoisting up an American flag.  Liberals do not want America to rest on its laurels. Liberals and conservatives look at handling terrorism differently. If some terrorist were to bomb the downtown Wells Fargo building, conservatives would be content to send them to Guantánamo Bay for indefinite harsh interrogation. Liberals have full confidence in our justice system. Today's discussion is on the non-action of the Harris County grand jury against Joe Horn.  I believe Jonathan Turley of CNN had it right when he said “If you live in a rural area, you're likely to side with Joe Horn and against him, if you're from a big city.”  I was born and raised in continue to live in rural Victoria, but at heart; I'm a big city slicker.  In this issue, conservatives are usually pro-law enforcement, but are more self-reliant, when it comes to home intrusions.  They want to put the bad guy away. Liberals will dial 9-1-1. I wonder if we will ever become,a give-and-take, or continue fighting the same old battles. The recent issue of Times had an interesting article titled “The New Patriotism” by Richard Stengel.  The author said patriotism has always been the most abstract of American values.  Conservatives and liberals have been arguing the definition of patriotism for years, even in our local forum.  Republicans say that they hold that mantel; accusing the Democrats of being ashamed of America.  Democrats say Republicans wrap themselves around the flag and prevent America from living up to its ideals.  Of course both sides exaggerate their stance.  We should accept our country's greatness, but we must realize what it takes to create and sustain greatness.  Torture, civil liberties, and habeas corpus come to mind. The flag pin is considered to be symbolism by liberals, but that could be the difference between winning and losing an election.  Perception matters and conservatives know that. The author went onto say, conservatives’ grade on a curb when it comes to evaluating America.  They know America has its faults, but they compare us to other nations, and they feel like we are the still the greatest.  Liberals like to accept the fault, correct, and become better for it.  Conservatives continue to follow the Reagan "Morning in America"  theme with the image of a paperboy running his route, the mother watching her daughter get married in church ,and  the elder gentleman hoisting up an American flag.  Liberals do not want America to rest on its laurels. Liberals and conservatives look at handling terrorism differently. If some terrorist were to bomb the downtown Wells Fargo building, conservatives would be content to send them to Guantánamo Bay for indefinite harsh interrogation. Liberals have full confidence in our justice system. Today's discussion is on the non-action of the Harris County grand jury against Joe Horn.  I believe Jonathan Turley of CNN had it right when he said “If you live in a rural area, you're likely to side with Joe Horn and against him, if you're from a big city.”  I was born and raised in continue to live in rural Victoria, but at heart; I'm a big city slicker.  In this issue, conservatives are usually pro-law enforcement, but are more self-reliant, when it comes to home intrusions.  They want to put the bad guy away. Liberals will dial 9-1-1. I wonder if we will ever become,a give-and-take, or continue fighting the same old battles. en-us "Torture, civil liberties, and habeas corpus come to mind" I guess it depends who does these things if it is all good to a liberal. What cause they deem okay to use these tactics and violations. One president comes to mind in all these things and is praised by the left,...and right. Abraham Lincoln. One of the time periods I am decently studied at. Many books in my library on this part of our history. I like what people of that time period had to say, not apologist. A violent, abusive decade had by many that brought our government more in line to have a strong, more centralized federal government. Lincoln knew about tortures done upon Southern civilians, and POWS. Letters are documented to have been written and recieved by him. He did little if nothing most of the time. Civil liberties, documented violations by civil servants and military of the Union. And since the North still felt the South was still in the Union, just revolting, it was against US citizens. Lincoln had some Northern papers ramsacked because they worte sympathetic articles about the South. And  habeas corpus, well enough said about that. There was none. All of this is in consideration that the Confederacy was not trying to overthrow the US government, just some states leave as was considered a right by many of the era. Leaving it to its way. The Confederacy to its.  So should we not consider Lincoln one of the worst violators in the US history? And he was a Republican.  http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56366 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56366 "Torture, civil liberties, and habeas corpus come to mind" I guess it depends who does these things if it is all good to a liberal. What cause they deem okay to use these tactics and violations. One president comes to mind in all these things and is praised by the left,...and right. Abraham Lincoln. One of the time periods I am decently studied at. Many books in my library on this part of our history. I like what people of that time period had to say, not apologist. A violent, abusive decade had by many that brought our government more in line to have a strong, more centralized federal government. Lincoln knew about tortures done upon Southern civilians, and POWS. Letters are documented to have been written and recieved by him. He did little if nothing most of the time. Civil liberties, documented violations by civil servants and military of the Union. And since the North still felt the South was still in the Union, just revolting, it was against US citizens. Lincoln had some Northern papers ramsacked because they worte sympathetic articles about the South. And  habeas corpus, well enough said about that. There was none. All of this is in consideration that the Confederacy was not trying to overthrow the US government, just some states leave as was considered a right by many of the era. Leaving it to its way. The Confederacy to its.  So should we not consider Lincoln one of the worst violators in the US history? And he was a Republican.  Hello Sandwichh I am not that naive to think that torture was not used in previous wars. This administration used it, got caught and tried to change the Geneva Convention to justify it..... Recently,the courts have ruled against this expansion of presidential powers in the Constitution.  I believe Lincoln was the best president ever, especially when he filed his  war cabinet with opposition voices, because he wanted the best people.  Even if they did not agree with him.   http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56374 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56374 Hello Sandwichh I am not that naive to think that torture was not used in previous wars. This administration used it, got caught and tried to change the Geneva Convention to justify it..... Recently,the courts have ruled against this expansion of presidential powers in the Constitution.  I believe Lincoln was the best president ever, especially when he filed his  war cabinet with opposition voices, because he wanted the best people.  Even if they did not agree with him.   Speaking to patriotism, why in the world would former General Wesley Clark attack McCains patriotism as "lacking" and then back down, but without apology? Some have said that Obama wants to "stay above the attacks", but apparently that doesn't mean his supporters won't follow his lead. Talk about a pre emptive strikes.....sounds like the war is just about to start..... Same old battles over again, I'd wager. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56568 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56568 Speaking to patriotism, why in the world would former General Wesley Clark attack McCains patriotism as "lacking" and then back down, but without apology? Some have said that Obama wants to "stay above the attacks", but apparently that doesn't mean his supporters won't follow his lead. Talk about a pre emptive strikes.....sounds like the war is just about to start..... Same old battles over again, I'd wager. Actual quote McCain frequently points out that he led "the largest squadron in the U.S. Navy," but Clark said on CBS television that that was not enough to support a claim to the presidency. When the interviewer, Bob Schieffer, noted to Clark that McCain had been shot down over Hanoi, Clark replied, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." Never questioned McCain's patriotism,just  just answered a statement....Clark has said many times McCain is a true American hero . Many equate military service as presidential material,hero status a bonus but only in the case of General Eisenhower was that true.. His command authority over the Allied forces qualified him to be commander in chief.   http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56578 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/Mike/7925/#c_56578 Actual quote McCain frequently points out that he led "the largest squadron in the U.S. Navy," but Clark said on CBS television that that was not enough to support a claim to the presidency. When the interviewer, Bob Schieffer, noted to Clark that McCain had been shot down over Hanoi, Clark replied, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." Never questioned McCain's patriotism,just  just answered a statement....Clark has said many times McCain is a true American hero . Many equate military service as presidential material,hero status a bonus but only in the case of General Eisenhower was that true.. His command authority over the Allied forces qualified him to be commander in chief.