http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902 The Daily Mail, an English newspaper and on-line version as well, recently reported that it's quite common in the U.K. to publically declare that babies are NOT environmentally friendly, and in the name of saving the planet, one is doing the world a favor by aborting conceived children. This makes no logical sense. Just what are we saving the planet for, if not for our children? Is the earth just to be looked at and admired, but not stepped upon- kind of like a formal dining room that some people have but don't dare use? Here's a snippet from the article that I read which made me aware of this sad situation: Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly By NATASHA COURTENAY-SMITH and MORAG TURNER - More by this author » Last updated at 22:05pm on 21st November 2007 "Had Toni Vernelli gone ahead with her pregnancy ten years ago, she would know at first hand what it is like to cradle her own baby, to have a pair of innocent eyes gazing up at her with unconditional love, to feel a little hand slipping into hers - and a voice calling her Mummy.   But the very thought makes her shudder with horror. Because when Toni terminated her pregnancy, she did so in the firm belief she was helping to save the planet. Incredibly, so determined was she that the terrible "mistake" of pregnancy should never happen again, that she begged the doctor who performed the abortion to sterilise her at the same time.   He refused, but Toni - who works for an environmental charity - "relentlessly hunted down a doctor who would perform the irreversible surgery.   Finally, eight years ago, Toni got her way. At the age of 27 this young woman at the height of her reproductive years was sterilised to "protect the planet". Incredibly, instead of mourning the loss of a family that never was, her boyfriend (now husband) presented her with a congratulations card.   While some might think it strange to celebrate the reversal of nature and denial of motherhood, Toni relishes her decision with an almost religious zeal.   "Having children is selfish. It's all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet," says Toni, 35. "Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land, more fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution, more greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population." While most parents view their children as the ultimate miracle of nature, Toni seems to see them as a sinister threat to the future." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495495&in_page_id=1879 This is amazing to me. This woman and others like are actually sacrificing their children for the benefit of the Earth. It sounds like something from the Old Testament pagan sacrifices where children were offered up to appease the nature gods.   The Daily Mail, an English newspaper and on-line version as well, recently reported that it's quite common in the U.K. to publically declare that babies are NOT environmentally friendly, and in the name of saving the planet, one is doing the world a favor by aborting conceived children. This makes no logical sense. Just what are we saving the planet for, if not for our children? Is the earth just to be looked at and admired, but not stepped upon- kind of like a formal dining room that some people have but don't dare use? Here's a snippet from the article that I read which made me aware of this sad situation: Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly By NATASHA COURTENAY-SMITH and MORAG TURNER - More by this author » Last updated at 22:05pm on 21st November 2007 "Had Toni Vernelli gone ahead with her pregnancy ten years ago, she would know at first hand what it is like to cradle her own baby, to have a pair of innocent eyes gazing up at her with unconditional love, to feel a little hand slipping into hers - and a voice calling her Mummy.   But the very thought makes her shudder with horror. Because when Toni terminated her pregnancy, she did so in the firm belief she was helping to save the planet. Incredibly, so determined was she that the terrible "mistake" of pregnancy should never happen again, that she begged the doctor who performed the abortion to sterilise her at the same time.   He refused, but Toni - who works for an environmental charity - "relentlessly hunted down a doctor who would perform the irreversible surgery.   Finally, eight years ago, Toni got her way. At the age of 27 this young woman at the height of her reproductive years was sterilised to "protect the planet". Incredibly, instead of mourning the loss of a family that never was, her boyfriend (now husband) presented her with a congratulations card.   While some might think it strange to celebrate the reversal of nature and denial of motherhood, Toni relishes her decision with an almost religious zeal.   "Having children is selfish. It's all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet," says Toni, 35. "Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land, more fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution, more greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population." While most parents view their children as the ultimate miracle of nature, Toni seems to see them as a sinister threat to the future." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495495&in_page_id=1879 This is amazing to me. This woman and others like are actually sacrificing their children for the benefit of the Earth. It sounds like something from the Old Testament pagan sacrifices where children were offered up to appease the nature gods.   en-us I think I correct in believing that this is your first "blog" post.  I must say, you don't mince words or beat around the bush when you finally jump in!  You go girl - tell it lilke it is! http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26193 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26193 I think I correct in believing that this is your first "blog" post.  I must say, you don't mince words or beat around the bush when you finally jump in!  You go girl - tell it lilke it is! "It sounds like something from the Old Testament pagan sacrifices where children were offered up to appease the nature gods." Whoops.  I guess this means that my own two children are in trouble, as well, seeing as we're Pagan and all.  ;-) I think I'll start a petition around our community of "heathens" and ask that instead of sacrificing children, we try offering crotchety old Conservatives up to the Gods for a change.  Hmmmm. Ha ha,  kid, I kid! The Gods don't care for Conservatives anyway.  Gives 'em indigestion.   *grin* (Now here's hoping you Victorians have a sense of humor...  :-) ) http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26198 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26198 "It sounds like something from the Old Testament pagan sacrifices where children were offered up to appease the nature gods." Whoops.  I guess this means that my own two children are in trouble, as well, seeing as we're Pagan and all.  ;-) I think I'll start a petition around our community of "heathens" and ask that instead of sacrificing children, we try offering crotchety old Conservatives up to the Gods for a change.  Hmmmm. Ha ha,  kid, I kid! The Gods don't care for Conservatives anyway.  Gives 'em indigestion.   *grin* (Now here's hoping you Victorians have a sense of humor...  :-) ) Hello CF, When it comes to ancient pagan history, the god Moloch comes to mind when discussing the sacrificing of children:  "Moloch was one of the false gods that Israel would worship during its periods of apostasy.    This false deity is associated with Ammon in 1 Kings 11:7, "Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon."        One of the practices of the cult that worshipped Moloch was to sacrifice their children.  Of course, this was forbidden by God's word:  Lev. 18:21 says, "Neither shall you give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the Lord."  (See also Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5; 2 Kings. 23:10; Jer. 32:35).      In some passages the reference is clearly to a deity to whom human sacrifice was made, particularly in the Valley of Hinnom on the SW of the Jerusalem hill (2 Ki. 23:10; Je. 32:35) at a site known as Topheth (‘fire pit’ in Syriac).      The ancients would heat this idol up with fire until it was glowing, then they would take their newborn babies, place them on the arms of the idol, and watch them burn to death." http://www.carm.org/misc/1722_moloch.htm You're right, I don't think the 'gods'  of today's pagans want any Conservatives. Boy, do I feel safer..... :-}  !!!  http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26211 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26211 Hello CF, When it comes to ancient pagan history, the god Moloch comes to mind when discussing the sacrificing of children:  "Moloch was one of the false gods that Israel would worship during its periods of apostasy.    This false deity is associated with Ammon in 1 Kings 11:7, "Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable idol of Moab, on the mountain which is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestable idol of the sons of Ammon."        One of the practices of the cult that worshipped Moloch was to sacrifice their children.  Of course, this was forbidden by God's word:  Lev. 18:21 says, "Neither shall you give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the Lord."  (See also Lev. 18:21; 20:2-5; 2 Kings. 23:10; Jer. 32:35).      In some passages the reference is clearly to a deity to whom human sacrifice was made, particularly in the Valley of Hinnom on the SW of the Jerusalem hill (2 Ki. 23:10; Je. 32:35) at a site known as Topheth (‘fire pit’ in Syriac).      The ancients would heat this idol up with fire until it was glowing, then they would take their newborn babies, place them on the arms of the idol, and watch them burn to death." http://www.carm.org/misc/1722_moloch.htm You're right, I don't think the 'gods'  of today's pagans want any Conservatives. Boy, do I feel safer..... :-}  !!!  Hello Shurelee, Yes, this is the first one. If I'm going to write about something, I'll write about what REALLY interests me and gets my blood going. This topic did just that!  Thanks for the friendly first post. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26212 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26212 Hello Shurelee, Yes, this is the first one. If I'm going to write about something, I'll write about what REALLY interests me and gets my blood going. This topic did just that!  Thanks for the friendly first post. I saw this several days ago off of WND. Funny, how nutcase these people are. It truly gives notice that environment wackos really do practice it as their religion. I know I would give them gas and heartburn if eaten. I get it enough. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26221 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26221 I saw this several days ago off of WND. Funny, how nutcase these people are. It truly gives notice that environment wackos really do practice it as their religion. I know I would give them gas and heartburn if eaten. I get it enough. Mary Ann, I know we don't see eye to eye on the abortion and "choice" debate, but you won't hear me argue on THIS one! Does this woman really believe this, or is she extremely desperate for publicity?  I've heard (or thought I did) every excuse why NOT to have children, but this has reached a level far beyond insane! This is beyond "tree hugger", this nut and her "followers" are probably doing the rest of us a favor by NOT "gracing" the rest of us with their, as THEY refer them, "pollutants". That just blows me away. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26246 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26246 Mary Ann, I know we don't see eye to eye on the abortion and "choice" debate, but you won't hear me argue on THIS one! Does this woman really believe this, or is she extremely desperate for publicity?  I've heard (or thought I did) every excuse why NOT to have children, but this has reached a level far beyond insane! This is beyond "tree hugger", this nut and her "followers" are probably doing the rest of us a favor by NOT "gracing" the rest of us with their, as THEY refer them, "pollutants". That just blows me away. Unfortunately MaryAnn it is not just in  the UK that these beliefs are being touted.  I have a niece at MHS who was told recently in a class that the size of her family was damaging the enviroment & that her parents were basically selfish, world polluting people.  I was shocked!  Then I read the article from which you recieved your inspiration & was speechless.  I guess I still am!  Good blog! http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26258 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26258 Unfortunately MaryAnn it is not just in  the UK that these beliefs are being touted.  I have a niece at MHS who was told recently in a class that the size of her family was damaging the enviroment & that her parents were basically selfish, world polluting people.  I was shocked!  Then I read the article from which you recieved your inspiration & was speechless.  I guess I still am!  Good blog! Further down in the article it talks about her & her husbands lifestyle of taking elaborate vacations.  I think she is trying to justify her lifestyle under the guise of being eco-friendly.  If you don't want children, don't have them, just don't try to make your decision seem to be more heroic than it actually is. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26264 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26264 Further down in the article it talks about her & her husbands lifestyle of taking elaborate vacations.  I think she is trying to justify her lifestyle under the guise of being eco-friendly.  If you don't want children, don't have them, just don't try to make your decision seem to be more heroic than it actually is. Hello Sandwichh, I'm sure eco warriors wouldn't eat a conservative Sandwichh, either!   Nutcase is correct. Notice they talk about how every person who is on the planet pollutes, and consumes food, and water. So they kill the children because it's "selfish" to continue your own genetic line. I think selfish is sacrificing their lives and having the jet-set vacations. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26269 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26269 Hello Sandwichh, I'm sure eco warriors wouldn't eat a conservative Sandwichh, either!   Nutcase is correct. Notice they talk about how every person who is on the planet pollutes, and consumes food, and water. So they kill the children because it's "selfish" to continue your own genetic line. I think selfish is sacrificing their lives and having the jet-set vacations. Wow!  VBB, if my children were told that, I would have been up at the school to talk to the teacher.  For starters, if people followed his/her line of thought, Miss Teacher might be out of a job, like many teachers in Japan. Japan has so few children being born that they have shut down schools and opened up geriatic center in their place! Just because one exists doesn't mean one has to be a major polluter. Also, very ironically, if people who have children are "selfish" what are the people who call them that? They pollute too, If we follow their logic to the final conclusion, not only would they be killing children in the womb, but if they were REALLY GENEROUS, they'd be drinking hemlock as well (I am not suggesting they should really do this.) to clear the planet of all polluters. Big people pollute more than little ones. To me, it's the ultimate in selfishness to kill your child so the planet is cleaner, but you keep living to enjoy the planet's beauty.   BTW, I like your avatar!  I like cats!   http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26271 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26271 Wow!  VBB, if my children were told that, I would have been up at the school to talk to the teacher.  For starters, if people followed his/her line of thought, Miss Teacher might be out of a job, like many teachers in Japan. Japan has so few children being born that they have shut down schools and opened up geriatic center in their place! Just because one exists doesn't mean one has to be a major polluter. Also, very ironically, if people who have children are "selfish" what are the people who call them that? They pollute too, If we follow their logic to the final conclusion, not only would they be killing children in the womb, but if they were REALLY GENEROUS, they'd be drinking hemlock as well (I am not suggesting they should really do this.) to clear the planet of all polluters. Big people pollute more than little ones. To me, it's the ultimate in selfishness to kill your child so the planet is cleaner, but you keep living to enjoy the planet's beauty.   BTW, I like your avatar!  I like cats!   My apologies here.......Try as I might to comment intelligently on this post, (and welcome aboard, Maryann), I allowed my comment to devolve into a rant and diatribe that I would not impose upon your faithful readers. I do however, agree that denying ones self the joy and creator bestowed right and pleasure of reproducing, in the name of saving a pile of rocks, sand, water and trees from it's ultimate fate of planned obsolescence and a glorious flame out......well, that is just stalling the inevitable fireworks show.........if you are so inclined to read the rest, look me up..........I'm in the crowd somewhere. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26272 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26272 My apologies here.......Try as I might to comment intelligently on this post, (and welcome aboard, Maryann), I allowed my comment to devolve into a rant and diatribe that I would not impose upon your faithful readers. I do however, agree that denying ones self the joy and creator bestowed right and pleasure of reproducing, in the name of saving a pile of rocks, sand, water and trees from it's ultimate fate of planned obsolescence and a glorious flame out......well, that is just stalling the inevitable fireworks show.........if you are so inclined to read the rest, look me up..........I'm in the crowd somewhere. I agree & say Let them drink Hemlock!  It would save more than a few of our precious resources!  I asked my niece what her mom had to say about the comment & she stated that the teacher became apologetic after she realized some took offense to the remark, so I doubt she even brought it up to her mom.  (We were discussing politics when it came up in our conversation.)  Thankfully she is intelligent enough to know that those people are insane though it did hurt her feelings.  And I guess I should clarify for some here, my niece is in high school & has no children of her own, she comes from a large family (5 kids plus her mom & dad).    P.S. - I got LOTS of cats if you are in need!  LOL : ) http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26275 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26275 I agree & say Let them drink Hemlock!  It would save more than a few of our precious resources!  I asked my niece what her mom had to say about the comment & she stated that the teacher became apologetic after she realized some took offense to the remark, so I doubt she even brought it up to her mom.  (We were discussing politics when it came up in our conversation.)  Thankfully she is intelligent enough to know that those people are insane though it did hurt her feelings.  And I guess I should clarify for some here, my niece is in high school & has no children of her own, she comes from a large family (5 kids plus her mom & dad).    P.S. - I got LOTS of cats if you are in need!  LOL : ) VBB, If they told my kids something like they told your niece I would have been at the office the next morning having a face to face conference with the teach and the principle. Serious face to face. And probably at the next board meeting, as if they care. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26313 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26313 VBB, If they told my kids something like they told your niece I would have been at the office the next morning having a face to face conference with the teach and the principle. Serious face to face. And probably at the next board meeting, as if they care. Hello Mike, Thanks for the welcome. You stated with much wisdom: "I do however, agree that denying ones self the joy and creator bestowed right and pleasure of reproducing, in the name of saving a pile of rocks, sand, water and trees from it's ultimate fate of planned obsolescence and a glorious flame out......well, that is just stalling the inevitable fireworks show........." I agree with you wholeheartedly, MAYBE from a different feminine point of view, but still I agree.  I 've learned so much about the myself, human nature, how God loves us like children, and what's important in life from the entire child raising experience, beginning with the 9 mos. prior to birth. In the end, the earth is put here for us, not us to decorate the Earth. Thanks for the comments that make me see things from a diffferent persective. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26334 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26334 Hello Mike, Thanks for the welcome. You stated with much wisdom: "I do however, agree that denying ones self the joy and creator bestowed right and pleasure of reproducing, in the name of saving a pile of rocks, sand, water and trees from it's ultimate fate of planned obsolescence and a glorious flame out......well, that is just stalling the inevitable fireworks show........." I agree with you wholeheartedly, MAYBE from a different feminine point of view, but still I agree.  I 've learned so much about the myself, human nature, how God loves us like children, and what's important in life from the entire child raising experience, beginning with the 9 mos. prior to birth. In the end, the earth is put here for us, not us to decorate the Earth. Thanks for the comments that make me see things from a diffferent persective. Hello VBB, About the cats- I was going to ask you the same! http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26336 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26336 Hello VBB, About the cats- I was going to ask you the same! These people seem to have come an unnaturally small gene pool that smacks of too much in-breeding.  Personally I think the lot of them (including any  of their relatives of child -bearing age) should be "altered"  as well. Perhaps if they can successfully motivate others of like mentaliy it would greatly reduce their carbon footprint.  I say lets offer many words of encouragement and pats on the back. http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26478 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_26478 These people seem to have come an unnaturally small gene pool that smacks of too much in-breeding.  Personally I think the lot of them (including any  of their relatives of child -bearing age) should be "altered"  as well. Perhaps if they can successfully motivate others of like mentaliy it would greatly reduce their carbon footprint.  I say lets offer many words of encouragement and pats on the back. Thank you for the comment!  :) I read your post and agree--who are we preserving this planet for?!  I guess there will always be extremists... Nice to "meet" you! :)Kat   http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_27921 http://community.victoriaadvocate.com/home/Blog/maryann/5902/#c_27921 Thank you for the comment!  :) I read your post and agree--who are we preserving this planet for?!  I guess there will always be extremists... Nice to "meet" you! :)Kat