Group wants to oust DA
Group wants to oust DA
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Fri Dec 14, 2007 01:06:06 CST
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:36:10 CST
VicIda: "I call you a liar for trying to paint me and my family as criminals for the color of our skin."I HAVE NEVER said you were a criminal because of the color of your skin. I could care less what your skin color is.
The only person who seems to be obsessed about your skin color is YOU. This is the sign of a weak person who has to make up excuses to defend him/herself.
My Brother has expessed that he is aware of a particular family in the vicinity of the street intersections you have named. He and OTHER OFFICERS as well have had repeated dealings with a particular group and a particular location near there. Of course he rightly will not discuss particulars. But be as it may, this group are known criminals.
VicIda: "The fact that your brother would even discuss criminal activities with you (with or without actual names) is in itself a criminal act."
No. it's not. Your ignorance of the law knows no bounds. Without particulars, Names, addresses,dates,and times, he is mearly discussing in general and not giving away any infomation that can be used for or against anyone.
VicIda: "Wipe the smirk off of your face before you go trying to smear good folks names."
VicIda, Show me a "Good Folk" that I have smeared and I will. You are not one.
Fri Dec 21, 2007 05:03:29 CST
VicIda,
Why are you making a racial issue out of this?
>"I call you a liar for trying to paint me and my family as criminals for the color of our skin."<
Have Tyler's defenders sunk so low that they have to play the "race card" now? To quote a famous philosopher, "Great Googley Moogley!"
Thu Dec 20, 2007 21:23:47 CST
CG (Scott Hanson), your brother doesn’t know me from Adam. And, according to your post “For example. From what VicIda has said in their two posts my brother knows who (or at least related to) that specific individual is. and yes it is someone he has had to deal with in the course of his official duties (Arresting criminals)” I or my relatives are criminals? I’m here to tell you me and my family are law-abiding, God-fearing folks who aren’t criminals. You’re always going on about how Tyler’s a liar, I call you a liar for trying to paint me and my family as criminals for the color of our skin. The fact that your brother would even discuss criminal activities with you (with or without actual names) is in itself a criminal act. Wipe the smirk off of your face before you go trying to smear good folks names.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 22:02:27 CST
ALS: I beg to differ. How and when did Ure and O'Connor start this? Enlighten me again, ole wise one..
Wed Dec 19, 2007 21:58:57 CST
CG23Sailor!!!!!! Hell we need to campaign you for our next DA.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 21:56:38 CST
So we will wait and wonder what will happen to the two gang members that shot those guns off. Will Cry Baby-reject those too.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 21:28:47 CST
bighorn, how quickly you forget!! The DA did not start this pissing match!! Chief Ure and Sheriff O'Connor did. Now, City Attorney Smith does all the talking for Ure and O'Connor, well, he's never heard from anymore.Wed Dec 19, 2007 19:15:13 CST
Not a good day for our illustrious city attorney in court today. The motion to deny the DA access to Ratcliff medical records the night of his purported suicide attempt...DENIED. An now he is changing his tactics...instead of pleading the 5th amendment against the right of self-incrimination he is refusing to answer the DA's questions on grounds of attorney-client privilege. From what they reported on Channel 25, the judge did not sound like he was too impressed with that argument. If I was taking legal advice from this Mr. Smith I would start to think twice about his abilities.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 19:00:00 CST
ALS,I have never called Tyler Stupid, or a Dumb***.
You do have to have brains to pass the Texas Bar Exam. Law School and a whole lot of other stuff.
I have however called him a Liar.
This is NOT unsubstantiated but proven by Tyler himself in making contradicting statements.
Tyler says he will not accept cases unless the affidavit is signed.
Tyler claims (in the case of the 11 VPD subpoenas) that he offered them to sign the affidavit, when they refused, he had no choice but to subpoena them.
These are Tylers own statements.
But if they did not sign an affidavit, how is there a case before the Grand Jury for them to be subpoenaed to?
These cases were BEFORE the affidavit rule was in effect.
So Tyler is a SUBSTATIATED Liar
Early in the rift (in fact the very first Article (DA's ACTIONS ALARM LAW ENFORCEMENT)
Tyler claimed that the reason VPD was sloppy in writing cases was that they were used to Dexter Eaves accepting any and all cases.
Now recently Tyler made the claim he has rejected the same amount of cases as Eaves.
These statements are opposite and contradictory. Either Tyler was Lying then or he is Lying now.
Either way Tyler is a SUBSTATIATED Liar.
The Attack on my Brother by VicIda was totally and completely unwarranted and unsubstatiated. Also it was totally off topic for this thread.
Officer Hanson (My brother) has nothing to do with this situation other than he is my Brother.
At the most all he has done was offer some comment and insight into what the various facts and comments mean that have come out in the articles or in this discussion group.
Example. When the problems with the Subpoenas of officers with little advance notice came up it was through him I learned that in the past VPD was always given ample warning (aprox 3 months) MONTHS warning of court appearances.
From this I surmised that the shortened warning time is intentional on the part of the DA.
My brother has never given me detailed info on specific cases or named any names of those being investigated.
For example. From what VicIda has said in their two posts my brother knows who (or at least related to) that specific individual is. and yes it is someone he has had to deal with in the course of his official duties (Arresting criminals)
However He will NOT (and rightly so) give me details as to who this person is.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 17:44:01 CST
cassie,
He prosecuted that case where he made fun of his own witness (a VPD officer) on the man was on the stand. The judge finally admonished him - happened a month or so ago.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 15:07:50 CST
Cassie: I would have said "if he ever tries and wins a case", but didn't want to get jumped on this forum for unfairly blaming Tyler. I know his office is trying cases regulary, but not sure if HE has actually taken one to trial yet.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 08:54:17 CST
BIGHORN - I couldn't agree more!
Wed Dec 19, 2007 08:35:47 CST
To ALS:I doubt anything written has anything to do with the Advocates circulation. I've had more folks complain about front story content than anything (living Gay in Victoria as an example).
My principal complaint with the DA is that he started this "pissing match" with other law enforcement folks and has never acted the least bit contrite for having started this mess. With each statement he makes himself to be a bigger buffoon while the DA's office is rendered impotent.
I wish he would admit to his errors in judgement and start doing his job. He can start "grandstanding" after he wins a few case.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 08:25:57 CST
ALS:Just because YOU don't like what people have to say about what's going on in this clown of a town you want to knock the advocate for others actions...If you don't like it then don't read it...
Scroll works very well for annoying people with fowl mouths,I use it often...
Human Nature is something else but by you knocking the advocate for others nonsense comments wasn't a very nice thing of you to do either...
Don't let Human Nature get to you,it's not worth it...
Besides,you are better then that...
Wed Dec 19, 2007 07:08:56 CST
ALS,
You said: >"a handful of people everyday tell me they have not renewed their subscription to the newspaper nor plan to in the future."<
Could it be that they're too busy updating their resumes to have time to read the paper or view the comments on this forum?
Wed Dec 19, 2007 06:50:06 CST
Advocate, it is becoming more obvious and understandable with every comment on this website why a handful of people everyday tell me they have not renewed their subscription to the newspaper nor plan to in the future. People calling our DA ignorant, a dumb***, a liar, (and the list goes on) are no doubt UNSUBSTANTIATED ATTACKS on him, yet they continue to be posted. So much for consistency!!!!
Wed Dec 19, 2007 05:30:56 CST
AuLapinAgile and bighorn,
AuLpinAgile:,Since you're so convinced that the affidavits are necessary, perhaps in your search you can manage to find copies and share them. It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison, doncha think?.
Well you are at it, why not let everyone know whether the D.A.s involved shut down the court system in order to coerce the affected police departments and how long it took before they caved in to the demands of a special affidavit?.
bighhorn,you said:>"I'm dubious that anyone is stupid enough to put "much" in writing."< you answered your own comment:>"his arrogance to the point of ignorance is unreal." I rest my case...
For an update on the Tyler situation, see my latest blog post titled:
>"Time for a Review of the Tyler Saga AND an update."<
Wed Dec 19, 2007 00:55:24 CST
So 252 counties in Texas do NOT need a "special" affidavit? I wonder how they manage!!Perhaps you can tell us how many counties in the state of Texas have a District Attorney that just decided to stop accepting criminal cases one day?
Also, I have NO other accounts on here. Why would having multiple accounts even cross your mind (didn't cross my mind)!! I have to wonder...
Tue Dec 18, 2007 23:34:01 CST
The word I get from inside the offices is that Tyler is a perfectionist to the point of being an ***, and that his arrogance to the point of ignorance is unreal. Given public statements he has made, I find this all very believable. "Only ten people want me out? Big Deal!"As for his written comments regarding officers and suspects, I'm dubious that anyone is stupid enough to put "much" in writing. I would suspect that this particular point is more insulting to the the people that Tyler should be working with (ie, city police, sheriffs dept.) than to the public at large. We shall see.
Tue Dec 18, 2007 23:19:26 CST
sickandtired, wethepeople & justmerighthere (three in the same?) and Shurelee, “heard through the grapevine” sounds suspiciously unsubstantiated. I find it interesting that the Advocate let your posts stay up. I’m sure that if there was any documented evidence of Tyler being derogatory towards victims, David Smith would have certainly slipped the evidence to Gabe by now.Shurelee, Two counties that require affidavits such as that being requested by Tyler: Williamson and Colorado. More as I find them.
Tue Dec 18, 2007 21:09:45 CST
I don't know, I've not seen the notes or talked to anyone who has. I've only heard through the grape vine that the comments about the police are unprofessional and the remarks about the victims are derogatory.
Tue Dec 18, 2007 20:49:52 CST
It is my understanding that Tyler refers to victims and officers in his notes as "idiots" and when officers refer cases to him where victims are wanting to pursue charges for small crimes, he replies "are you kidding me".
Tue Dec 18, 2007 19:21:31 CST
Thanks for the update Surelee.. I will call first thing in the morning..
Tue Dec 18, 2007 18:29:56 CST
For an update on the Tyler situation, see my latest blog post titled:
>"Time for a Review of the Tyler Saga AND an update."<
Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:08:06 CST
I'd like to see a copy of the legal documentation where Tyler appealed the Open Records Letter No. 2007 - 14425. I also wonder if the Judge visiting on Friday will have an answer?This is the documentation pertaining to written notes between the Police department and the DA's office.
I'm very interested in seeing those documents with all those handwritten notes! Wonder what could be in them? I wonder if the handwritten notes give any indication how Mr. Tyler thinks of the tax paying residents?
Tue Dec 18, 2007 00:03:37 CST
justmerighthere,
Where did you get he was in the military for 11 years?
Mon Dec 17, 2007 23:45:16 CST
Well I don't have very much room to talk because I would like to keep my anonymity until this petition comes out.But... I can say that when it does...I would be there to sign it along with 50 of my co-workers !!
Wow... that's 2/3 of my workforce !
To Tyler and Friends...Yikes... !!!
By the way... I heard that he was not promoted in the military... anyone know why he came out after 11 years ?
Military personnel I know you can answer that... you KNOW what that means !
Mon Dec 17, 2007 22:25:20 CST
GABE~ What is the status of Tyler's appeal w/the AG's office concerning the cases he has returned back to the Police Chief with his personal comments inscribed?
Mon Dec 17, 2007 21:43:08 CST
How long does that appeals process generally take?
Mon Dec 17, 2007 21:34:30 CST
Still waiting to hear if/when the Advocate can get it's hands on those documents that Tyler sent back to Ure. Tyler must be "puckered up" thinking about the public reaction if we get to see the tone and choice of language in his comments! If that happens - Laissez les bon temps roulez! It sure is going to mess up his Christmas Office Party on Wednesday when Judge Mark comes to town.
Mon Dec 17, 2007 21:22:33 CST
Sad part is more people are concerned with the "gays in our community" than the judicial system coming to a grinding halt.
Mon Dec 17, 2007 20:20:51 CST
Somewhat in the words of Earl Pits.... "Wake up Victoria!"
Mon Dec 17, 2007 20:13:42 CST
According to the Texas Bar Association's "Texas Disciplinary Rules of Professional Conduct" -- Rule 3.09
"A prosecutor has the responsibility to see that justice is done, and not simply to be an advocate. This responsibility carries with it a number of specific obligations. Among these is to see that no person is threatened with or subjected to the rigors of a criminal prosecution without good cause."
"Notice it says without "good cause" not the words "without a signed affidavit created soley by the District Attorney"
In section(d) it also says that the Special Responsibilty of a Prosecutor is to "make timely disclosure to the defense of all evidence or information known to the prosecutor that tends to negate the guilt of the accused or mitigates the offense, and, in connection with sentencing, disclose to the defense and to the tribunal all unprivileged mitigating information known to the prosecutor, except when the prosecutor is relieved of this responsibility by a protective order of the tribunal"
Does alowing pending cases against accused citizens stack up make for "timely disclosure"?
Mon Dec 17, 2007 16:13:44 CST
From the Texas Bar Association...Rule 8.04 Misconduct(a) A lawyer shall not:
(1) violate these rules, knowingly assist or induce another to do so, or do so through the acts of another, whether or not such violation occurred in the course of a client-lawyer relationship;
(2) commit a serious crime or commit any other criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyers honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects;
(3) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;
(4) engage in conduct constituting obstruction of justice;(5) state or imply an ability to influence improperly a government agency or official;
I concur with Taxpayingregisteredvoter on points #4 and #5. Absolutely interesting.
Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:16:02 CST
Strawberry Well it might be because Joshua Garcia kept mentioning the victim's name over and over again. So sad that people act in this manor.
Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:07:10 CST
can anyone tell me why there is no longer a way to post a comment under the article "Ratcliff's accuser jailed"?
Mon Dec 17, 2007 08:25:42 CST
From the Texas Bar Association...Rule 8.04 Misconduct(a) A lawyer shall not:
(1) violate these rules, knowingly assist or induce another to do so, or do so through the acts of another, whether or not such violation occurred in the course of a client-lawyer relationship;
(2) commit a serious crime or commit any other criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyers honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects;
(3) engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation; 111
(4) engage in conduct constituting obstruction of justice;
(5) state or imply an ability to influence improperly a government agency or official;
#4 and #5 quite interesting
Sun Dec 16, 2007 20:37:13 CST
VicIda, To date, Total Line of Duty Deaths: 172 for police officers in the U.S. How many in your profession, if you indeed have one, have been killed? When you leave home to go to work, do you wonder if you will return home to see your family? Cops do. Texas leads the nation with 21 deaths (source http://www.odmp.org/year.ph... Might I suggest either you or your family start obeying the law, and maybe you wont run into Officer Hanson or his 110 brothers and sisters again.
Sun Dec 16, 2007 20:21:03 CST
VicIda,
I don't know Travis Hanson and only met Scott the other night when the Victoria 10 got together for the first time. I don't know what you think Scott's crusade is all about, but mine and the rest of the group's crusade is about getting the justice system back on track. If that means getting your friend Tyler removed from office so be it.
As I'm concerned, you're talking out of your nether region about personal crusades or vendettas when it comes to our reaction to Tyler's failure to do his job! By the way, if you work for Tyler, you might want to dust off your resume.
Sun Dec 16, 2007 20:17:21 CST
VicIda,You do not know me. You CANNOT speak factually as to what my motives are. My motives have been stated clearly many times. I believe Tyler has created a situation where the streets of Victoria are more dangerous now and Justice is NOT being served. You may believe my motives are something else but you cannot speak factually or support your claims.
My motives would remain the same regardless of my having a brother on VPD or not.
I have never Said I knew what Tyler's motives were. I have spoken as to what he has done and as WeThePeople posted before me, these ARE ALL SUBSTANTIATED.
As to WHY Tyler is doing it I have my thoughts and Yes I have made those thoughts known, But they remain my thoughts. I do not claim them to be fact.
There is a DISTINCT difference in what I have done and what you have done. You throw out UNSUBSTANIATED accusations of racial prejudism on my brother and claim them to be fact. You then further make a claim that since your accusations are fact because you say so, that that automatically conveys some further facts as to my motivations.
Let me post something for you to think about VicIda...
§ 42.07. HARASSMENT. (a) A person commits an offense
if, with intent to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or
embarrass another, he:
(1) initiates communication by telephone, in writing,
or by electronic communication and in the course of the
communication makes a comment, request, suggestion, or proposal
that is obscene;
(2) threatens, by telephone, in writing, or by
electronic communication, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm
the person receiving the threat, to inflict bodily injury on the person or to commit a felony against the person, a member of his family or household, or his property;
(3) conveys, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm
the person receiving the report, a false report, which is known by the conveyor to be false, that another person has suffered death or serious bodily injury;
(4) causes the telephone of another to ring repeatedly
or makes repeated telephone communications anonymously or in a manner reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass, or offend another;
(5) makes a telephone call and intentionally fails to
hang up or disengage the connection;
(6) knowingly permits a telephone under the person's
control to be used by another to commit an offense under this section; or
(7) sends repeated electronic communications in a
manner reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass, or offend another.
You are perilously close to committing an offense under section a) subparagraph 7)
But then again as you obviously have had dealings with my brother in the course of his official duties I would assume you are no stranger to comming offenses.
As a going on being a 7 year verteran of VPD my brother has had numerous dealings with the criminal elements of Victoria. as such he has made many enemies with these same criminal elements.
It is in a criminal's nature to place blame for his crime on everyone else except himself. A Burglar will blame the neighbor who calls the cops for his arrest rather than on himself for commiting the crime of Burglary.
Look at frivolous lawsuits like the McDonald's coffee incident or the anecdotal burglar who sues the homeowner for an unsafe condition that results in injury to the burglar while he was committing a crime on a property he had no right to be on in the first place.
As a 7 year Vet, My brother has worked several zones in Victoria city. Including Cimmeron, Bell Towers, Colony Creek, Fleetwood, in addition to Queen City, SILVER CITY, Under-the-Hill, and others. He has had to deal with criminals of all race, creed, gender, financial status,etc... He arrests based on if they have commited a crime or not, not on their race or any other identifier you care to mention.
I would put out there that in any given neighborhood where there is a predominance of one race over another, that an officers who is assigned to that neighbor hood still deals only with criminals. Since those criminals are in that specific neighborhood, then statistically speaking they will also be predominantly of the same race as the neighborhoods.
In a White neighbor hood, most of the criminals will be white.
In a Hispanic Neighborhood, most of the criminals will be Hispanic.
In a Black Neighborhood, again... most of the criminals will be black.
THIS IS NOT SAYING that all blacks are criminals or all Hispanics, or all whites....
I would like to point out a comment you made in your deleted post where you denounced our group based on your assumption that none of us are persons of color. That in and of itself is a racially bigoted statement.
May I also point out that white is a color and no, we are not all white.
Unless you are an albino, or a crispy critter from a building fire.... we are ALL varying shades of brown.
I have spoken with my brother on complaints that have been brought against him in the past. All complaints on him have been proven unfounded.
Except one.... It seems my brother knocked a little too hard on a door and put a ding in the door.
But then again. It WAS a loud music call.
He also has many compliments from citizens on his handling of calls to include hand written notes, emails, and phone calls to police personnel on his behalf.
As I am typing this, am looking at a Police commendation, A certificate of Merit, and TWO Letters of recognition. all awarded to him.
SO, the next time you decide to attempt to tarnish one of Victoria's finest (I say this DESPITE him being my brother, we fought like terrors growing up), Bring facts to the table rather than accusations.
Oh, and remember when I said I had gone down to the DA's office and spoke personally with Tyler over the DA/VPD rift for an hour and a half...
I introduced myself only as Scott, Tyler did not know of my connection.
Tyler mentioned several officers by name, both as examples of good and bad officers.
One in particular that he mentioned was Officer Travis Hanson.
As an example of an officer who does good work and writes excellent reports.
Oh and Mr Tyler, My brother is not follicly challenged as you stated. He shaves his head Kojak intentionally.
This is exactly why I wanted to keep my brother out of this whole deal. Tyler and VPD both know who I and my brother are. I only wanted to keep the idiots out there from turning this whole forum into an attack platform where they attack him and I defend him.
This is about Tyler and mine and others beliefs that he needs to be removed from office. And others(like you and ALS) beliefs that he is doing a good job.
STAY ON TOPIC.
Darlin64 if you are reading...
LMBO as well. The Code to prove I am not a 'puter is JHAAD=Jihad! LMAO
Sun Dec 16, 2007 19:17:12 CST
Vicida I must say that I DISAGREE with your comments about Officer Hanson. You made some pretty serious accusations in your comment that got removed, and I made add that those types of posts set yourself up for civil liability. Police officers get up to one million dollars in free attorney fees, so unless you can back that up, I wouldn't post anything but fact. I am assuming that you had a bad encounter with Officer Hanson, one of which probably resulted in someone breaking the law. How about diverting your frustration to that person rather than Officer Hanson who is doing what he is suppose to. Before you accuse me of being a cop, let me state I work downtown. I was fortunate enough to meet Officer Hanson when I telephone for police assistance several years ago. Officer Hanson was very thorough, professional, and showed great knowledge. Much more so than ignorant posts that you have made. I call your bluff, what EVIDENCE and FACT do you have to solitify (which means corroborate...oh wait...back up) your previous post about Officer Hanson?
Sun Dec 16, 2007 15:32:27 CST
Actually, Stealth, YOUR statement is NOT true at all. I repectfully disagree with you. TRUE - Tyler did stop accepting cases in October - I have the very public paperwork with that information on it. Anyone can go down, get it and substantiate it.
TRUE - judges have released people from jail because they were held so long and didn't get "due process". I also have that information obtained from public records anyone can get and substantiate it.
TRUE - Tyler is prosecuting cases from before he decided to stop taking cases. Also, public information.
TRUE - Tyler did demand the VPD sign a special affidavit. Dear God, also public information.
TRUE - there are more violent crimes on the street since Tyler decided NOT to accept cases. Also public information.
TRUE - Tyler has created yet more victims and he has victimized the victims once again by NOT accepting cases. Also, public records. Maybe open to interpretation and common sense but still public records.
TRUE - Tyler did subpeona many many officers and ask that they appear on the same day at the same time. He didn't win that case though. Public record information.
TRUE - Tyler is spending YOUR tax dollars by creating scenerios which involve more attorneys. He's on his way to Austin to appeal a case about the paperwork and written notes involving cases he has not accepted in the new year (who do you think is paying his trip? YOUR tax dollars). Also public information.
TRUE - Tyler did hire a man that he KNEW was being investigated for a very serious crime. Here we go again, public records and substantiated.
Pretty much everything in most of the posts can be substantiated. The residents of Victoria can get all the information they need because most of it is available to the public.
Sun Dec 16, 2007 15:32:19 CST
I tried to show Scott’s motives behind his crusade, but the Advocate has chosen to silence my information. How is my information any less substantiated than any of the previous posts by Scott and friends? My information is true, unlike your published accusations from David Smith regarding conspiracies in Tyler’s office. Those same accusations that Smith later backed off from, but were never reported as such by your newspaper. Advocate, why don’t you bother sending Gabe down to Pleasant Green or Mount Calvary and ask around about Officer Travis Hanson? You’ll quickly realize that there is indeed a straight line connection. The Advocate should be more even handed regarding censorship.
Sun Dec 16, 2007 15:04:41 CST
uh...Advocate...sorry to have to bring this up, but just about every post on here involves some type of unsubstantiated attack. So what's the diff.?
Sun Dec 16, 2007 14:44:55 CST
We deleted the comments by VicIda because they were unsubstantiated attacks on an individual. If you have evidence of official misconduct, please contact the Advocate newsroom at 361-574-1222.
Sun Dec 16, 2007 14:29:07 CST
What VicIda is doing is exactly what others in power will do. They intimidate and humiliate. Let's pick on Scott's brother because we can't handle the truth. The discouragement that you try is exactly why I am anonymous. I don't want my family hassled like you do Scott's. You're a mean person, VicIda.
Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:19:13 CST
"Your comments and attitude regarding what is happening in Victoria is EXACTLY why this town is in this shape. For way too long, the powers that be have worked hard to keep the citizenry "ignorant and happy". They didn't (and still don't) want "outsiders" coming in who might give the citizens ideas. If outsiders with new ideas came in, they ran them off quickly or took them into their fold and corrupted them with power."Exactly. I concur. This is the problem in a nutshell.
Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:14:54 CST
jroesyhnuaa:Your comments and attitude regarding what is happening in Victoria is EXACTLY why this town is in this shape. For way too long, the powers that be have worked hard to keep the citizenry "ignorant and happy". They didn't (and still don't) want "outsiders" coming in who might give the citizens ideas. If outsiders with new ideas came in, they ran them off quickly or took them into their fold and corrupted them with power.
jroesyhnuaa - you NEED to care. You need to be concerned about making Victoria a better place for your family.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 19:46:01 CST
ALS: "The difference between "The Victoria 10" and me is...I am not claiming to be the high and mighty "standing up" for everyone else who can't, blahhh, blahhhh, blahhhh..."We are not claiming that at all. YOU are claiming that we are claiming that.
The Difference between You (ALS) and us. Is that we are taking a stand for what we think is right. YOU are nothing but mouth.
and you are STILL nothing but mouth Still hiding in anonymity while calling others cowards for being anonymous.
ALS: "You might not want to give up your ties to law enforcement, but unfortunately by giving your full name, you gave too much...it's a matter of time before all the others make the connection."
Are you trying to scare me? Tyler knows who he is. His investigators know who he is.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out who he is.
I simply feel no reason to make it easy for idiots like you to throw ignorant stones and muddy the waters of what really is at stake. and waste everyones times with false allegations.
You imply I am completely trying to keep him secret and Im not. If so I would never have come forward in the Paper, posted my name and Photo on my profile or anything else.
Those who were in the know already made the connection a LOOONG time ago. The rest.. like you. It doesnt matter. except for stopping a bunch of unfounded BS.
So go ahead.. dig around and post who he is then start the BS slinging. You would only prove me right. Im going to save this post so that when you do.. I can repost it to prove you wrong
By the way.. you still haven't said who you are or whether you are willing to speak or meet with me. Are you a Matt? or a man?
Sat Dec 15, 2007 19:15:17 CST
Well, Scott, it looks like I hit a nerve.....The difference between "The Victoria 10" and me is...I am not claiming to be the high and mighty "standing up" for everyone else who can't, blahhh, blahhhh, blahhhh...
You might not want to give up your ties to law enforcement, but unfortunately by giving your full name, you gave too much...it's a matter of time before all the others make the connection.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 19:14:34 CST
For much of human history, rulers and law were synonymous -- law was simply the will of the ruler. A first step away from such tyranny was the notion of rule by law, including the notion that even a ruler is under the law and should rule by virtue of legal means. Democracies went further by establishing the rule of law.
Rule of law means that no individual, president or private citizen, stands above law. Democratic governments exercise authority by way of law and are themselves subject to law's constraints. (Even, Steve Tyler, Criminal District Attorney)
Laws should express the will of the people, not the whims of kings, dictators, military officials, religious leaders, or self-appointed political parties (or Steve Tyler).
Citizens in democracies are willing to obey the laws of their society, then, because they are submitting to their own rules and regulations. Justice is best achieved when the laws are established by the very people who must obey them.
Under the rule of law, a system of strong, independent courts should have the power and authority, resources, and the prestige to hold government officials, even top leaders, (even Steve Tyler) accountable to the nation's laws and regulations.
For this reason, judges should be well trained, professional, independent, and impartial. To serve their necessary role in the legal and political system, judges must be committed to the principles of democracy. (As we have seen when Judge Williams recused himself)
The laws of a democracy may have many sources: written constitutions; statutes and regulations; religious and ethical teachings; and cultural traditions and practices.
Regardless of origin, the law should enshrine certain provisions to protect the rights and freedoms of citizens:
1. Under the requirement of equal protection under the law, the law may not be uniquely applicable to any single individual or group. (Steven Tyler has singled out the Victoria Police Dapartment and The Victoria County Sheriff's Department).
2. Citizens must be secure from arbitrary arrest and unreasonable search of their homes ore seizure of their personal property. (Tyler has threstened to arrest police officers and the VPD Chief)
3. Citizens charged with crimes are entitled to a speedy and public trial, along with the opportunity to confront and question their accusers. If convicted, they may not be subjected to cruel or unusual punishment. (250 Adult cases are at a grinding halt. with 20 Juvenile cases awaiting prosecution.
4. Citizens cannot be forced to testify against themselves. (Why has Tyler supeonaed so many for so little?)
Sat Dec 15, 2007 17:59:54 CST
Oh in furtherance I would like to thank those who say they are willing to sign the petition (even though unnecessary)We very much apreciate your support and if you are willing. feel free to contact any of us and maybe the Victoria 10 will become the Victoria 20
or 30
or 500
or 90,000
Sat Dec 15, 2007 17:47:05 CST
Ok to respond to several that have posted. Roberttx: "So ShureleeUJest, are you saying an innocent person should face a jury just because they are accused of a crime?"
Guilt or Innocence is decided by the Jury.
If we follow your illogic, no one ever can go to any trial ever and no one would ever go to any prison ever.
A person (Guilty or Innocent) is accused of a crime, or an investigation turns up evidence of a Crime. If there is sufficient evidence to reasonably believe it is possible the accused person commited a crime, then he goes to a trial by Jury. (whether there is enough evidence is what a Grand Jury decides)
During the Jury Trial the Jury will decide the guilt or innocence of the accused.
So YES, an innocent man should go before a Jury if there is enough evidence to reasonably believe he may in fact have commited the crime.
Now we have laws and proceedures in place to insure that innocent persons are not unreasonably sent to trials. but from time to time an innocent person does go to trial and they are aquitted and found innocent.
Since you seem to think no innocent person should go before a Jury and since it is that very Jury that decide if a person is NOT innocent. then according to you, NO ONE should EVER go before a Jury. NO ONE can ever be found Guilty. and NO ONE can ever go to prison for ANY crime.
See how silly you sound?
sladymoon: "I have had an officer at a corner watching my husband, when he went outside without his shirt, just because he happens to have several tattoos. He could have run the car plates which was in plan view and would have found out that he has a clean record, not even a traffic violation.
There is no OBJECTIVE fact at all in your claim. everything you said is subjective and based on false assumptions.
Did the police officer in fact TELL YOU the reason he was watching your husband. that it was because he was shirtless with tatoos? was he even in fact watching your husband at all?
Or was it more that there happened to be an officer on the corner of your street for some reason unknown to you and far more than likely having nothing to do with you at all. and when your husband went to get the mail the officer just happened(as anyone else might) to take note of him. Looked in his direction.
It is called being OBSERVANT. Maybe he was watching a house on your block and yours happened to be in the line of sight. maybe he just got off a call around the corner and stopped there to add notes to his report. WHO KNOWS! surely you DON'T.
As to running the plate of the car. You are saying the officer should be making dangerous assumptions. YOu are saying the officer should just assume the car parked in front belongs to the house it is parked in front of and not to a neighbor or visitor to the house. You are further saying the officer should assume that the person walking to get the mail would be the registered owner of the vehicle and not some other member of the family.
Your very claim of what the officer "Should Have Done" would result in the very thing you are protesting against.
mistaken arrests and such.
Maybe you should not jump to conclusions that the world is centered around you (or is there a reason you suspected the officer was watching him?... is there a reason the officer SHOULD have been watching him?
Further I would submit that you should leave law enforcement procedures to the police as your suggestions would result in the very thing you are against.
Mike: "Now what exactly is going to be the reason given for Mr. Tyler’s removal?"
The grounds for removal is his failure to fulfill the duties of his office. The exact charges and their wording we are still working out. Until such time that the petition is filled with the court We will not say further. We are still seeking legal guidance on how best to proceed.
Mike: "I have read about the disagreements between the police department, and the DAs office.
Why couldn’t a mediator step in and solve this issue?"
I too hope a mediator can help to resolve the dispute with the two agencies. However Tyler has already committed the violation(s) that would require his removal from office.
While a mediator could resolve the dispute itself, it is Tylers actions as a result of that dispute that is the reson his removal is necessary.
Mike: "Elections matter and I don’t think we want to get into a habit of changing the outcome of an election with the use of a petition.I could be completly wrong."
You are not completely wrong. just wrong in applying it to this situation.
I am not seeking to remove Tyler from office because I didn't like the election result. If I simply thought Tyler did not do a good Job then I would wait for the next election and vote for someone I think would be a better DA.
However when an elected official not only does a bad job. but fails to do his job at all. or brings distrust and dishonor to that office and/or tries to tear down the trust in other organizations. when he causes the cummunity to be less safe and more dangerous. When he fails to protect those citizens he is sworn to serve and in fact indirectly serves the enemies of society then you cannot afford to await the next election. Tylers failure to prosecute cases not based on the merits of the case but on his petty dispute with VPD constitutes a failure on his part to protect Victoria and seek justice for crime victims.
Even the Office of President of the United States has an Empeachment procedure to remove him from office before the end of his term.
ALS: "It's amazing that people (The "10") who claim to be "standing up" for everyone else are afraid to be publicly identified. That's not really standing up, is it!!! And please, save the retaliation theory for someone else. People with moral courage aren't afraid for others to know who they are and what they believe. Instead, the name for that is "coward."
ALS.. or anyone for that matter... Take your little mouse pointer... hold it over the name of a poster. Does it turn into a link? Now that link takes you toi a profile page. on that page will be a link to contact that person. via email. Now the person may or may not say much about themselves and still reamin anonymous but you can contact them.
As you can see. nearly every member who has admitted to being a part of this group can be contacted whether they remain anonymous or not.
Now move your little mousy thing over ALS. what do you get.
Nada
Zip
NOTHING
Now go to me. CG23Sailor
You see my Photo?
Thats the real me.
See where my name is Scott?
Thats my Real name
And yes I am a 38 year old former Navy man
wait a sec.. wasn't the guy in the group mentioned in the Paper a 38 year old man named Scott?
yep!
Scott Hanson in fact.
and Yep thats my real Name!
So even if my fellow members wish to remain anonymous at least you CAN contact them.
ALS on the other hand is COMPLETELY anonymous. so who is the coward?
I have gone to the DA's Office.
I spoke personally with the DA for over 90 minutes concerning the rift.
I have corosponded with a DA's investigator who was secretly posting online here with the Big-Brother-Is-Watching-Orwellian screen name of "The Watcher"
This DA Investigator knows who exactly I am and so does the DA. They also know my Ties to VPD and what Family I have in Law Enforcement. I only refuse to specify publicly who that family member is to avoid the ignorant BS that would result from people like ALS and others.
So ALS. You have been slapped across the face with a very big steel gauntlet. are you going to put up or shut up. Are you up to the challange or are you just a cowardly mudslinger. I will go one better. Contact me by Mail and I will give you my phone number to call me and we can talk verbally. Better yet. Just as I have met with the DA himself, I will meet with you. In Person. Are you up to it?
Are you willing to avoid the charge of cowardism that you so readily sling at others?
Or are you like Matt from the old Advocate format.
For those who don't know... Matt who was firmly in the DA's camp started challenging anyone to meet him and he would physically fight them. When an elderly retired officer-now-citizen took him up on it and even mentioned a date, time, and place, and what he would be wearing... suddenly Matt was off in the gulf on an oil platfom and "unable to attend"
Go Figure
So ALS are you a Matt?
I am not chalenging you to a fight. I am telling you that I am willing to meet with you to talk about your views and to show you that I am real. Not a psuedonym.
As to the others remaining anonymous. I respect and agree with their decision. I am just a citizen of Victoria. nothing special. I am not a business owner. I am not a member on a board of directors for any sort of community oganization. Some of the people with us ARE these things and have a lot to lose by retaliation by either the DA or his supporters.Several are well know individuals who are upstanding members of the community. I respect their fears of retaliation and their right to remain anonymous.
Tyler is wrong. They do NOT have to come forward. It takes only ONE person to put their name to that petition.
That brings me to my next topic. Misunderstanding over the petition.
Most people seem to be thinking of a "Signature petition" where you have to get a certain number of signatures to force an issue. such as adding an issue to a ballot or forcing a special election. like a "recall election"
This is not the case with what we are doing. This is a "Petition to the court". in this wat Petition is used in its meaning of a "request" to the court.
It only takes ONE person to sign their name. They must be specific in the charges they claim as the reason for the removal of the elected official. after that it is in the hands of the District Judge. He MUST by law, take the petition under consideration and if he finds the charges warranted then there will be a trial by jury to remove the DA from office.
It is pretty simple and straightforward but as others have said. not something to be taken lightly.
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding.
Even though a signature petition is nonbinding. The number of people I have talked to willing to sign one makes me wonderif having one of those as well may be useful in showing Tyler we are NOT an isolated group of "only ten" people who are upset with him. I'll have to talk that over with the others.
Do remember this. The AG's office is receiving on average about 8-10 calls per day for weeks now with complaints about Tyler.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:56:00 CST
.ALS and southtexas - still waiting for you to idenity yourselves....
Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:42:44 CST
ALS, Since you obviously support Mr. Tyler’s actions. How long do you suggest we let cases stack up before it would concern you and others that believe as you do? Wonder if your attitude would suddenly change if one of those cases was prosecuting someone that harmed one of your family or friends and the accused was set free because your DA would not take the case?
As far as anonymity, I have lived in this town over 20 years and full well know the powers that be can make your life pure hell. I have been "blackballed" before and it is not fun when financial decisions are made that can affect your business and livelihood.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:13:27 CST
Bighorn
Actually, it goes farther back than that. On of the early problems seems to be that Tyler sent cases back to the VPD with some unprofessional remarks about the investigating officers but even worse, he apparently made derogatory remarks about the victims.
The Advocate tried to get copies of those reports, but Tyler refused, claiming confidential information. The Advocate went to the State Attorney General; he reviewed them and said it was okay to release them to the press. Tyler immediately filed an appeal with a judge and everyone is waiting for his decision.
His claim that lawyer /client discussions are priviledged and confidential is nonsense. That idea is to protect the client. Do you really think that the police chief would care?
Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:10:10 CST
Victoria is not a place where ruffled feathers goes unnoticed. I do not blame these people for wishing to remain as anonymous as possible, nor do they lose credibility in my eyes. If this petition will make the powers that be sit up & take notice (successful mediation)then it will have served its puropose, if not then I do hope they find a lawyer to take the case. It is about time somebody stands up to the people in power & say enough is enough. I found it amusing that Tyler seemed surprised it was only 10 people! He obviously knows he is not doing what he should.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:48:21 CST
It's my understanding that this all started with the DA deriding officers in court over their testimony. How quickly egos have gotten out of control........
Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:16:38 CST
ALS and southtexas,
ALS….
- Deride retaliation all you want, but having lived in this small town a good many years, I’ve seen it happen to real people and it wasn’t pretty.
- By the way, why don’t YOU stand up and tell us who you really are. I included my email address on my profile page and because of the comments I’ve made, several people have emailed thinly veiled threats of violence against me and my family. I’m not worried about myself since I have a license to carry a concealed weapon (handy to have when shopping at the mall by the way). But my wife doesn’t, so I worry about her and yes, even paranoids have enemies.
southtexas,
- In case you missed it, by Tyler refusing to accept cases from the S.O and VPD, a local judge has had to release criminals because they weren’t being afforded speedy trials. He isn’t doing his job as required by law – refusing to sign those ridiculously detailed affidavits, the officers and deputies are NOT breaking the law.
- In case you’ve missed it, members of the “10” have stated on this forum that they would be satisfied if Tyler would start accepting cases again and would not feel compelled to file a petition.
- In case you missed it, three people in two different case have been arrested in for serious crimes in the last week or so. You might ask yourself how you’d feel if these creeps were put back on the street because Tyler refused to accept those cases.
- By the way, I noticed YOU haven’t identified yourself – what’s the holdup?
.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:08:05 CST
For ALS...Your strong statement only reinforces my belief that there might be some sort of retaliation. I did notice that you yourself have no public contact information. Perhaps you are not who you say you are online.
And maybe YOU are the only one that doesn't know who we are! How about that for a theory?
Ps. I'd like to thank everyone for all the encouraging and wonderful emails. And a huge THANK YOU for all the information so many people sent.
Keep sending us information because we never know what we will need.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:44:46 CST
From what I can gather from all the mishmash of information surrounding this conflict.....it boils down to the fact that the D.A. feels that he is being given cases to prosecute without enough evidence, documentation, dotted "i's" and crossed "t's" to get his job done. He must depend on the law enforcement agencies for such and prosecuting cases that he knows will get thrown out is futile.....and also a waste of my tax dollars. The Law Enforcement Agencies feel they are providing what is needed for an adequate prosecution and that the D.A. is lazy and is not doing his job. Who is right.....there is most likely fault on both sides and this should be worked out so that both law enforcement and the D.A.'s office can get back to the job of putting bad guys in jail again. These arrogant and nameless 10 people who are setting themselves up as some type of standard.....that is a whole different matter and is ridiculous. What they are doing is only making the whole situation worse and making them look like fools. Think how much money is going to be wasted by the continued delays and problems caused by their meddeling in the system.
Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:28:59 CST
It's amazing that people (The "10") who claim to be "standing up" for everyone else are afraid to be publicly identified. That's not really standing up, is it!!! And please, save the retaliation theory for someone else. People with moral courage aren't afraid for others to know who they are and what they believe. Instead, the name for that is "coward."
Sat Dec 15, 2007 08:21:18 CST
By the way, any one know when our "wonderful" DA plans on putting the killer of MS. Blackwell on trial?
Sat Dec 15, 2007 02:56:20 CST
I am also one of the Victoria 10! I have no personal grudge against the District Attorney and have no family members who have ever been prosecuted by Mr. Tyler. I have no criminal record and lead a pretty boring life in general. I am standing up for our rights as residents of Victoria city. Many residents feel the same way we feel but are unable to speak out due to various reasons. So we shall stand up for them - if they will let us.
I feel that we (the people) haven't been heard or taken seriously. I feel that it is the duty of the elected officials to do their jobs and not cause extra problems by using these positions of power. And I feel they do indeed answer to US - the very people who elected them.
And I also feel that it is within OUR rights as residents of Victoria to "fire" an elected official we feel is harming us and our city.
A petition such as this will NOT change the outcome of an election. If the elected official is doing their job, they have nothing to worry about. When was the last time anyone in Victoria ever mentioned a recall or a petition (20 years or more)? It isn't a simple procedure with a few angry disgruntled criminals signing a petition because they are mad at the District Attorney.
The residents of Victoria need to read the charter set forth for removing the local District Attorney. Call downtown and ask for the Charter (I'm sure it'll be an interesting read).
I also recommend that the residents educate themselves concerning the positions of the elected officials, what their jobs require, to whom they serve (sometimes they forget that part) and how to remove them just in case we ever encounter another situation like this in the future.
On the other hand, the residents of Victoria have the right to not sign anything we put forth (if needed), to not agree with us nor to ever do anything about anything. And I'm okay with that. That is NOT the stand that I chose to take.
If anyone has any helpful information, please contact one of the Victoria 10. We will keep your confidences. We might not share what we know or what we are doing BUT in time everyone will know.
ps. Don't bother to send me idiotic hate anonymous emails. They won't hurt my feelings, scare me and I will just delete them.. Thank you for understanding.
Fri Dec 14, 2007 23:42:17 CST
Thank you, but I am not brain washed and I am not an officer of the law and yes I fervently agree that I also want everyone to do their job. Investigators... investigate, prosecutors... prosecute, and let the juries decide!
Fri Dec 14, 2007 23:29:41 CST
taxpayer, first of all the affidavit you quoted is not even the revised copy. The word "exhaustive" no longer appears in the document. You're right, the words "all" and "any" are powerful words, so are "innocent" and "guilty."
So let's see, instead of "any" and "all" how about this?
"SOME material and relevant information"
"SOME information concerning this suspect"
"SOME known witnesses"
You and your fellow officers have been brainwashed into thinking the DA is "out to get you." He simply wants everyone to do their jobs (100%). To use your words again, is that fair and reasonable?
Fri Dec 14, 2007 23:26:45 CST
Final thought for the evening... If we only charged and prosecuted the 100% without a doubt known guilty, why would we need a judicial system to defend the innocent? Think about it.
Fri Dec 14, 2007 23:22:04 CST
Please understand that this is OUR Chief and OUR District Attorney being paid with OUR tax dollars. Do I believe our officials need to work out this issue, YES. Do I believe that bringing our County Judicial system to a halt is the answer...NO! They can go into the broom closet and arm wrestle over the issue for all I care. What ever it takes to get OUR judicial system back up and running. Please read my earlier comments in that this is not personal with me; it is simply about people doing their jobs they were elected.
Fri Dec 14, 2007 23:12:07 CST
ALS, I respectfully disagree. It does ask them to swear to the following... and I quote from the affidavit: “Having reviewed all information, this is an exhaustive submission of all material and relevant information within the Victoria Police Department New World database, the Victoria Sheriff Office Able Term database, as well as any information concerning this suspect and all known witnesses maintained by this agency or any law enforcement to my knowledge”. The officer’s issues are with the use of the words “any” and “all”. These are very powerful words to swear to.
Fri Dec 14, 2007 23:02:20 CST
The District Attorney revised his original affidavit to meet the requests of the Chief, yet he (the Chief) decided he wanted yet more changes than the second draft allowed. Why is that? It seems the Chief NEVER had any intentions to work out a compromise. He simply wanted it to LOOK like he was trying to work with the DA. Now that's what you call a "political game.!" So, you tell me, are your Chief's actions fair and reasonable?
Fri Dec 14, 2007 22:58:37 CST
Woohoo, Thank you for the vote of confidence, but there will only be one signature needed. Thank you again for responding and educating yourself to this issue.Everyone please understand that I truly hope that a petition will not have to be filed and that Victoria County will not make any more headlines for something such as this. I pray that Mr. Tyler and his office will work out the affidavit issue and start taking the bad guys off the street again for all our sake.