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Ratcliff plea: Former sheriff, accuser in courtroom
Ratcliff plea: Former sheriff, accuser in courtroom
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Thu Jul 3, 2008 11:15:08 CDT
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Fri Jul 4, 2008 06:39:27 CDT
I thought the rat was Mexican? Half?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 22:25:21 CDT
After thinking about this a little longer, isnt this what Bill Clinton pleaded to in his imeachment ? Perjury to the investigating body ? Ratcliff said he lied when asked " when the boy came to your house did you have sex with him ?" He said "no". He now admits that was a lie. I plead guilty to lying ? So yes I had sex with the boy ? but no I didnt molest him ? Lawyers should interpret the law not twist it!!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 22:15:15 CDT
Thank you tstorm. Guess I'm on a roll.Thank you chatty. I printed out the address and I will write him. You write him, as well. I will start the letter tomorrow. It is the fourth of July, the Independence day of our country and my 15th wedding anniversary. lol. Have a great holiday!
One last item. My children saw me printing out a list of judges and wanted to know what I was doing. I explained what happened and how I feel compelled to write the judge and ask for them to at least, put his name on the sex offenders list. Well, after getting a lesson in what "pedophile" and "sex offender" was, they said if he was a mexican or black man, he would get on that list right away. It was upsetting to tell them about this incident. I always think about them first. If you as citizens feel like it, please write The Hon. Mark Lutjens. Thanks.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 22:10:28 CDT
tstorm5,I know he was up for re-election to the 144th. That website is now down. So he may not be on the 144th at the courthouse anymore....that may be why he is a circuit judge. He is in this region. Was not here for the first of this...how was he selected for this nasty mess anyway? The advocate probably has it in archive stories from October or so. Oh well.
Sure is nice....How much do you earn to carry an umbrella?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 22:08:19 CDT
This all makes me sick ! After reading the plea , this is a joke,but I am still looking for the punch line. Is it "our" city ? is it "our" legal system ? or is it justice ( just us )that is the punch line. Citizens should have a voice in our community. This is a sad and disappointing day .
Thu Jul 3, 2008 21:45:02 CDT
Mark Luitjen144th
3rd Floor, Justice Center
(210) 335-2511
-----------------------------------------------------------
Here is a little more info, if the letter needs to go thru the County Clerk.
Margaret G. Montemayor
Bexar County District Clerk
Bexar County Courthouse
100 Dolorosa
San Antonio, TX 78205-3002
mmontemayor@co.bexar.tx.us
Thu Jul 3, 2008 21:34:13 CDT
Well I used google...and found the following: Hon. Mark Luitjen
Former Judge 144th District Court
101 Hill Country Lane
San Antonio, Texas 78232
Specialties - Criminal
I found this information at this link: http://www.courts.state.tx....
He had been an active district judge for years. And I love this, he IS human. He is a member of a band, sings, and plays bass guitar. So I hope pediphiles are low on his list! We can pray that August 15th he rejects the plea.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 21:32:25 CDT
Woohoo, you are really writing some great stuff tonight.Podunk - That last post was a thing of beauty, how true!!!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 21:15:42 CDT
Chatty, hes a s.o. deputy. Only sheriff deputies deal with court security, not p.d. Was there a chafuer too? Anyone?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 21:05:40 CDT
About the guy with the umbrella....who is he? Is he suppose to be a body guard, an escort, or what. If he is a body guard and wants to take a chance and not leave his gun hand free that is one thing.But if his is on the clock for the City of Victoria, why is he using his gun hand to hold an umbrella? Is he planning on playing the character of the penguin against Bat Man?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 21:03:52 CDT
"Here's my question...How do we explain to our children that they are to trust law enforcement officials and that they are to trust in our LEGAL SYSTEM when we allow these things to go unpunished?"Why would you want to teach your kid to trust law enforcement officials? No well-meaning parent should ever teach kids to trust someone until that trust is earned, no matter who it is (and especially not someone in a position to abuse that trust the way a cop is).
Thu Jul 3, 2008 20:50:46 CDT
Anyone remember when Michael Jackson was on trial for sexual assault and he had that big ole bodyguard carrying a umbrella over him? Is this something that comes with this type of charge? And just why were we keeping him dry? I doubt that deputies job description says "hold umbrella over crooks head". Don't get me wrong, I am 100% pro-police. I support them in everyway. The majority are honest and its the bad apples that make them all look bad. It's a damn shame this isnt going to trial. is it because so much bad stuff will come out about people in this town? Im not originally from here but I was always told this is a crooked town. Will someone who is from here explain where the crookedness comes from? Is it the past higher up in law enforcement? Is it the rich run this town? I don't get it because I am ignorant of Victoria politics.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 20:07:29 CDT
Wonderful idea chatty! We do need to write to him. Can you scare up his addy or email addy? Any ideas where we could write? I'll gladly write a note. I like the way you explain it all and you need to write him, yourself! Good job. Let us hear. We can post it here and all can write.(We'll warn him about luminary.)
Thu Jul 3, 2008 19:53:33 CDT
I had not kept up with what had happened until reading the story today. I think if he is guilty he should be punished. I do not know who/what/when the victim was or what Ratcliff did on the Internet. However his plea bargain definitely indicates if he said previously he did not do it, then he was lying and he did it – what ever it was. This is like a Bill Clinton affair. So I read about the sinner and the judge. Out of curiosity, I googled Judge Mark Luitjen who is the circuit judge. I like the title circuit judge –reminds of the horse and buggy days. Speaking of horses and buggies which will Judge Luitjen think is more important in this case? A human or a horse? Any side bets? Never mind betting is illegal too. The reason I am asking is below is an excerpt on how he treated a man who did not feed and care for his horses.
A man accused of starving his horses on his ranch had his probation revoked Friday on a DWI conviction and was sentenced to five years in prison by a Bexar County district judge. Roy Quiñones appeared in court to answer charges that he starved several horses on his south Bexar County ranch. "Let me explain something to you," Luitjen said. "I grew up on a ranch and my parents raised quarter horses. We had 75 breed mares and I find that what you're saying ... is absolutely ludicrous." Luitjen then sentenced Quiñones to prison. Quiñones still faces charges of animal cruelty and attempted tampering with evidence. Four of his horses died and seven others are recuperating at a Hill Country ranch. March 2005.
So if you have sexual relationships with minors and solicit relationships on the Internet--both which are illegal, and worse you are in a public position that provides you with sufficient knowledge that you can’t claim ignorance…what do you as judge decide? Accept the plea bargain? Or not? By accepting it, is Judge Luitjen saying horses are more valuable than our children? Especially since he grew up with horses? Luitjen has been faced with tough decisions before. He has made people mad. Mad enough one man tried to have a hit job put on him.
I did try to find court cases that the Judge had to decide about with perjury. I did not find. I found one with pornography: A man named Jonathan Colabianchi from San Antonio, Texa, was turned in by his fiancé. Not sure if it was on a pc or printed but he had over 500 images of child pornography. Judge Luitjen sentenced Colabianchi to six years. On top of that the man lost all rights to his two young daughters.
Is Ratcliff a parent? Where does he live? Near any children? Does the plea bargin only address the Internet or what about where he lives? Does he have grandchildren? Will it matter? I googled and read a lot of the history of he said and she said, the squabbles, the indictments on others and such (sorry I had not been following).
Since Ratcliff has admitted to perjury—we now know he is guilty. He should be fined more than a horse killer. The supreme court won’t allow the death sentence. A judge, DA, and jury in Texas sentenced a man to 3000 plus years. He was not in law enforcement. Ratcliff was in a position of authority, knew the laws and abused them, I think 5,000 years is about right. He can be next door neighbors with the guy that has 3000 years.
Can we write to the judge and petition how Ratcliff should be sentenced? Does he care? How deep is he tied to politics in Victoria? From other cases I have read where he sentenced public employees, he appeared to be fair and rejected many plea bargins. Many of us that are parents expect him to do so again.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 17:57:10 CDT
Indeed, that jail Leutenant escorting Ratcliff out, holding the umbrella for him is sickening. He looks a little to close to the RAT. I wonder if he worked for him before O'conner? I wonder if this jail employee was one who escorted the victim to RAT's office, just like he is escorting the RAT out of court, putting his dirty RAT A** on a pedestal now?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 17:42:10 CDT
Something else to think about, too, for your 13 year old. What if your son is arrested and before you can bail him out for possession or DUI,(or some such dumb thing that kids all tend to do once a lifetime), the jailer allows your son to be sodomized? NOW, everyone in Victoria, no matter what the station in life, must think, about THEIR child in that situation if it happens. Arrests will happen in rich families and they will happen in poor families. The difference may be if you support your son and will bail him out before someone wicked sodomizes him and changes his life forever.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 17:32:03 CDT
Here's my question...How do we explain to our children that they are to trust law enforcement officials and that they are to trust in our LEGAL SYSTEM when we allow these things to go unpunished? Our son is 13 years old and has a lot of questions concerning this case. He is also upset at the outcome. It's all over the news and in the newspapers so it's not as if we can just avoid the issue, nor would we choose to paint the picture of a perfect society but this is just unacceptable. We cannot trust the people who are put in office to protect us. What type of society is this? It's also a slap in the face for all of those law enforcement officers who work so hard to protect us and would never consider doing harm or performing such sinister acts. I wonder what the overall feeling is at the Sheriff's Department. Not the public statement but the actual gut feelings of those who worked with the ex-sheriff.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 17:22:10 CDT
IDEASRUS, you wrote, "If you have not been on drugs, in jail, and scared to death, how can you know what the victim thought or felt?"Well, let's see...You're right. I can't relate. I've never been a junkie in jail and scared to death about what is gonna happen to me. You want me to believe you, then don't be a junkie and DON'T wait almost a decade to holler abuse.
To those who think he MUST be guilty because he pled to perjury, think for a minute what he was looking at if he didn't take the plea. Read the comments on this site. They are written by the people who would be on a jury panel. Because the charges are sexual in nature and -- gasp -- about abuse of a poor innocent CHILD then of course he must be guilty. After all, LARD, WE'VE GOT TO PERTEK THE CHILRUN!!!! If you were innocent but looking at the same charges and you were offered a plea to perjury, you'd be a fool to pass it up. Deferred ajudication for ten year probation vs. most of the rest of your life in the Huntsville Hilton???? I'd take the plea in a heartbeat, yes, EVEN though I was innocent. There are a LOT of innocent people in prison. I'd agree to anything to stay out -- and so would you. Remeber, you might object at first that you're innocent and won't take a plea, but, if you're smart, you'd listen to your lawyer and plead out.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:53:58 CDT
Unfortunately, you won't be given the opportunity, Podunk. Oh, and YOUR name sounds so smart, too! If he goes to trial, he won't be found innocent. Stupid people are not my problem, it's the ones that pass judgement over others because of their lower station in life.
Why IS that sheriff carrying an umbrella over Ratcliff's head like a slave? Oh, I forgot, Ratcliff is still part of the Victoria elite. I thought slavery was abolished. It sure looks bad. I wouldn't do it.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:36:25 CDT
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:36:14 CDT
That picture of the Jailer holding that umbrella sickens me.That picture says alot to our community. What was the jailer thinking?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:35:38 CDT
My hope is that the judge rejects the plea bargain and there is no choice but to go to trial. I then hope that he is found innocent. After that, I would love for someone to come up to me with a saved copy of all the posts this yahoo is making.Now don't get me wrong, I don't know (or care) if he's truly guilty or innocent. I just enjoy making fun of stupid people!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:33:59 CDT
Maybe they are all busy at Ratcliff's house, congratulating their friend on his successful day in court.They are suspiciously absent from this forum - I was joking, but now that I think about it.....
I really would like to hear what they have to say about this.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:33:58 CDT
If you've lived in Victoria all your life...then that's how long this has been going on....there are sooo many top officials that are dirty and on the take...it's not even funny....they are supposed to uphold the law...yet they don't even abide by it themselves....they get into law and top spots in the city in order to get what they want...they couldnt care less about the citizens here or what they're really supposed to be doing.....so whoever is in the dark about this....wake up!!!!!!!! cuz things aint never gonna change in Victoria and they certainly aint gonna do it for the people who put them in office......haha get real people....they're already up there.....u cant possibly think that we the people can do anything about this.....bottom line is .............deal with it.......that's the beauty of good ole Victoria............sorry but that's the truth....
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:22:19 CDT
Where are Ratcliff's friends now? Where's "he's not guilty even if he pleas" SouthTexas? Where are all those people that said he came from good folks and he couldn't be guilty. Where are all those people who patted each other on the back and were certain that it would all just play out and innocent until proven guilty, etc because YOU knew him and his family. Are you ashamed of yourselves? Goody two-shoes people who stood in judgement against innocent people who COULD NOT afford to eat at the country club and shoot a round of golf with the likes of yourselves. We DID NOT get mimosas for brunch and find time to lay around the pool, take Hawaii vacations and wear expensive clothes from fine stores like the HAVES of this town. I pray ALL of YOU who stood in judgement over innocent lives and found fault with others with your lies, slander and deceit will come to judgement in my lifetime.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:10:23 CDT
Did I just see that jailer giving Ratcliff special treatment? Would the same kindness be shown any other person who just plead guilty to a freakin' crime. Heck no, it would NOT! This is going to cause problems...this whole mess is going to cause problems. What does this say about our courts? The man lied about having sex with a child. Is someone going to do anything about this? This is Texas for greatness sake. I can't believe our community is just standing on the sidelines watching this all happen around us. Ratcliff has betrayed us! People were standing up for him...telling us what a good guy he was. Those people were betrayed also. There is a saying I heard a US Marine (my husband)say once (or twice)...on second thought better not write it out. But I'm still thinking it.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:09:04 CDT
And here's the rest of it...Even though a successfully completed deferred adjudication will ultimately result in charges being dismissed by the criminal court, itis extremely important to take note of the fact that two very important records will remain in existence... and will be viewable by thegeneral public... for the rest of that person's life. These two records are: (1) The original arrest record which contains the arresting officers notes, reports, etc. This arrest record will also usually contain police investigator's notes, photographs, confessions, or any other evidence seized or testimony taken during an arrest(2) The record of the action of the court. This document is usually the order of probation that you, the defendant signed in orderto qualify for deferred adjudication. This paper, with your signature on it, also contains your plea of guilty or "nolo contendere" (no contest).
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:08:49 CDT
here is the article i was reading...http://www.deferredadjudica...
says its in Texas, but like i said im not real sure!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 16:01:07 CDT
Watchingyou - Are you sure that last quote was referring to Texas law? Each state has slightly different laws, and I've never heard of that one. That's not to say that it doesn't exist in Texas, but the question warrants asking.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:47:57 CDT
thats the article i was just reading podunk, it is a good one. I thought that it all went off your record once you completed everything. although on another article it did say this: "At any time, after the defendant has satisfactorily completed one-third of the original community supervision period or two years of community supervision, whichever is less, the period of community supervision may be reduced or terminated by the judge. Upon the satisfactory fulfillment of the conditions of community supervision, and the expiration of the period of community supervision, the judge, by order duly entered, shall amend or modify the original sentence imposed, if necessary, to conform to the community supervision period and shall discharge the defendant. If the judge discharges the defendant under this section, the judge may set aside the verdict or permit the defendant to withdraw his plea, and shall dismiss the accusation, complaint, information or indictment against the defendant, who shall thereafter be released from all penalties and disabilities resulting from the offense or crime of which he has been convicted or to which he has pleaded guilty"
how true that is, i dont know! im not all that familiar with it, which is why I was reading up on it.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:42:20 CDT
This is a good article on deferred adjudication for those who are interested: http://www.tajlr.com/index....
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:37:55 CDT
"I just get more annoyed when I watch the video of RATcliff being escorted out by a sheriff's office LT after he just got done admitting to molesting young boys while sheriff."Could you please point me to the story where Ratcliff admitted to molesting young boys, please? I must have missed that article.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:35:44 CDT
FunnyBusinessi think that is hilarious. im not sure if he is handicap. wasn't he in the hospital like last year for some problems?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:35:11 CDT
A deferred adjudication never leaves your record and many job applications ask if you ever had a deferred adjudication and what it was for.So Ratcliff will have to live with it on his record but the reason for his deferred adjudication will not be as bad as if he had received it for a sex charge.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:30:27 CDT
I just get more annoyed when I watch the video of RATcliff being escorted out by a sheriff's office LT after he just got done admitting to molesting young boys while sheriff. Good thing that deputy was there to hold his umbrella like he is a VIP.Also watching the video of him leaving, did anyone notice the handicap parking spot and placard? Is he disabled? Maybe this can be like when Al Capone couldn't be convicted of murders but they got him for tax evasion. Maybe since we cant seem to get the sexual assaults we could jail him for the handicap parking LMAO!!
OK, though I was joking, go ahead and open fire :)
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:25:08 CDT
angel i wasn't saying that i would ridicule you. im saying that some of the others here will.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 15:23:31 CDT
watchingyou- I stated "pled guilty" but I didn't state guilty of what. You said that I would be rediculed If I didn't change it but I'm LMAO at you because you must be illiterate. By the way I'm no longer a Victorian either!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:55:09 CDT
"Podunk, unless I'm mistaken, Texas is one of the few states that does not allow expungement of an adult felony record." - ErnieI oversimplified that statement a bit. You may be correct about Texas sealing records instead of shredding them, but the end result is still the same.
Also, I'd like to clarify your statement so that others don't get confused. The nondisclosure motion is meant to hide current information from the public. Examples of this are victims names, final sentences, eyewitnesses addresses, etc. The tag at the end of his sentence, "deferred adjudication" is the reason his record would be expunged or sealed. That tag means that the sentence before it will not be treated as a conviction after the accused adheres to the sentancing guidelines. In this particular case, once Ratcliff is released from probation, his conviction is wiped (or hidden) from his record.
I would also like to point out that I'm not a lawyer. I don't practice law in any way, but I have studied the law in college. It's very possible that in my explanation I make minor technical errors like saying "expunged" when it may not be technically accurate, but the end result is still the same.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:53:15 CDT
angels34 you better correct your post and put pled guilty to lying...or you will be ridiculed that you are an ignorant victorian...because he didn't plead guilty to sexual abuse....that is being said with LOTS OF SARCASM...
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:52:20 CDT
It was clearly aimed at BigJ!!!Whoever said Rodney King got what he deserved is completely out of touch with reality. High, smart mouthed, running from cops, whatever...NOBODY DESERVES THAT KIND OF TREATMENT...Well, maybe guys that fly planes into large buildings do, as well as pedophiles.
Sorry to get so far off topic!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:51:54 CDT
I just had a bad thought... about the devil... Ratcliff... and that umbrella.... Nah... I better not even mention it... :0
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:51:20 CDT
Way to go Victoria. Now we will have every pedophile in the US moving here with an open range.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:51:15 CDT
Can someone help me understand why- if Ratcliffe pled Guilty, couldn't somekind of charge of Abuse of Power or Official Oppresion come of this? As Sheriff, he should have been held accountable shouldn't he? Tyler claimed repeatedly to follow the law regardless of who is involved and that is why he was after the Police. If this were true, wouldn't he be doing the same against Radcliffe instead of helping him get off?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:49:16 CDT
i was not talking about anything, i was making a joke of tstorms comment about the SHOW Law & Order. Im not a damn idiot, I know that is TV and this is "real life". I just found it funny that he/she threw that out there and BIGJ was so quick to correct it...when it was meant to be funny or at least that is the way i took it. Some people are so damn serious...wow...get your panties/boxers/briefs/thongs/underoos out of a wad! SHEESH!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:47:51 CDT
Wow, watching you. I am being a smart A** for stating a truth about some Victorians and some posters on here? Then I should wear that as a badge of honor. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:46:09 CDT
"What a complete freaking scam ! Justice does not reside in Victoria County, it's merely a whore that can be bought / sold / traded to fit a your needs (if you run with the right group of people).
You've got it!!! What this poster right here has been saying for years!!!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:42:28 CDT
BIGJ - You guys are talking about two different things entirely. You're talking about the judicial system and he's talking about overall criminal justice. In the overarching system of criminal justice, though, there's really three factions (I know it's a TV quote, but it's wrong). There's also the corrections department. For those on the advanced route, you could also add in probation and parole, but they're minor factions of the corrections department.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:41:22 CDT
Not really: The facts of the Rodney King episode.After the riots, the United States Justice Department (USJD) reinstated its investigation and subsequently obtained an indictment of federal civil rights violations against the four officers involved in King's beating. The federal trial, as compared to the state trial, focused more on the medical and officer training evidence in the case instead of just relying on the videotape of the incident which the state had done so previously. As a result, Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon, were found guilty by a jury and sentenced to 30 months of prison, while Timothy Wind and Theodore Briseno were acquitted of all charges against them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
I saw the entire viedo,and Rodney King was not a model citizen,high on drugs but it did not merit the 57 times the man was beaten while handcuffed....
What's that line about you can have your own opinion, but not your own set of facts.....
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:41:05 CDT
wow..can we say MORON...i was referring to tstorms comment earlier...nevermind you have no freakin clue...and i am not a SON....
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:40:27 CDT
*If* the judge accepts this plea bargain I believe justice will not have been served. That's a big "if" right now however. We won't know that until Aug. 15th - if then. I agree with Podunk that we're getting a little hasty in our rush to judgment here. This hearing today, for all the hubub surrounding it, simply appeared to be a formality. Do I *think* Ratcliff's guilty of the serious charges against him? Yes. Do I think he deserves more than five years probation *if* he's guilty of the actions alleged in the indictments? Yes. Do I *know* he's guilty. Nope....
JMO, yes the abuse is alleged to have started before the victim was in Ratcliff's jail but the victim had been in trouble with the law prior to the abuse that occurred at Ratcliff's home. We can, however, be confident those actions did occur since Ratcliff has pleaded guilty to perjury in testifying that these acts did not occur. So yes, probation is effectively a slap on the wrist for sexual abuse of a child.
Podunk, unless I'm mistaken, Texas is one of the few states that does not allow expungement of an adult felony record.
We have something called "nondisclosure" instead. You're right that *if* a judge agrees to the nondisclosure motion, the accused would not have to list the felony on a job application but the charges on his record would not simply disappear. The motion for nondisclosure would have to be presented to the court after the accused completes his probation without violation and would have to be approved by a judge at that time.
The charge he pleaded guilty to today, if the plea is accepted, will remain on his record and visible to law enforcement and the courts. It seems a pretty fine distinction but if I understand it correctly, that's the law in Texas.
Ernie
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:39:58 CDT
I'm well aware of the fact that the comment was aimed at BIGJ and not me. I'm also aware of the effects of collateral damage and moral support.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:39:45 CDT
Watchingyou, Law and order is fake. This is real life. Get it, son? You can be accuse of lying over secondary events around the main event. THAT IS THE POINT.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:39:33 CDT
Tstorm: The Policemen in the Rodney King case did not get off scott free. They got jail sentences.Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:35:47 CDT
BIGJ you are the one quick to insult everyone, as if you know so much. I am no brown noser, dont even know podunk. I just dont think it was aimed at him, i think it was aimed at you for being a smart A**!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:34:09 CDT
Watchingyou, you sure are have a brown nose. If it wasnt aim at Podunk then why mention his name?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:32:33 CDT
Big J says "It seems to me that Victoria is full ingornat people who do knee jerk reactions on things. Just for the sake of conserative style knee jerking." If you are going to degrade others please get the wording correct. I have no clue what an "ignornat" is exactly but based on your post I think it describes a person who insults others as "ignorant" but just isn't smart enough to spell correctly themselves.
And someone referred to the Rodney King case...WOW. Have you seen that entire video or just the 15 seconds showed over and over on the news. Those officers were prosecuted, didn't plea out, and the evidence proved they were justified.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:31:41 CDT
well BIGJ, if he pleads guilty to lying under oath, then that means that when he said he didn't do those things he was lying...so HE DID DO THOSE THINGS!!!!
I know some people take pleas even if they are innocent because there may be evidence against them or no chance in hell that they could convince a jury they are innocent. But in all honesty I do not think that Ratcliff would have any problems getting off of this with some of the "bad apples" around here! So why take a plea bargain????
And i take it you dont watch Law & Order???
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:29:19 CDT
podunk i dont think that comment was aimed at you....
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:28:44 CDT
Tstorm5. Good one...lol. Now do you want a cookie? If Popunk wants to jump off the cliff then he is on his own. My point is this, if you are accuse of a sex offense and also accuse of lying. If you pled gulity of lying, that does NOT automactally make you gulity of the sexual abuse.
You are wrong. The crinimal justice (ie Legal) system have two parts the Defense and the Distict Attroney. The Police only enforce laws.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:25:44 CDT
"BIGJ - If Podunk had said "lets all jump off a cliff" you probably would have been one of the first to leap."I'm sorry, I simply stated the way the law works, and my personal opinion as to the status of the justice system. I fail to see how your crotch-jockey type comment has any merit in this situation.
As for the family of the victim filing a lawsuit, that is well within their right. Criminal and civil courts are completely seperate.
To add to that, if there's enough evidence to push someone to plead guilty, the chances are good that the victim could win the lawsuit. Unlike a criminal court, a civil court victory only requires a preponderance of the evidence; meaning that you only have to be more believable than your opponent (51% or more of the believability).
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:18:04 CDT
LMAO tstorm...that was a good one!!!!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:13:16 CDT
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police who investigate crime, and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories.BIGJ - If Podunk had said "lets all jump off a cliff" you probably would have been one of the first to leap.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:11:57 CDT
If in a horrible scenerio the judge accepts this plea, could the victim then bring litigation against Ratcliff ie. the Goldmans sueing OJ for everything hes worth?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 14:08:01 CDT
PodunkTX, thank you. Thank you for apply common sense. It is sad that people are so d@mn ingorant of the legal system. He did NOT pled guilty for the sexual abuse....yet. People need to sit down, shut up, and think for a change.It seems to me that Victoria is full ingornat people who do knee jerk reactions on things. Just for the sake of conserative style knee jerking.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:59:41 CDT
noecando,This didn't start after the accuser was in the "system". It all started when Ratcliff posed as a female on the Internet and tricked this juvenile into his vehicle and held him against his own will.
So using the excuse that this accuser worked the system along with Ratcliff is BS because this happened years before this young man got into any trouble and I wouldn't doubt if Ratcliff had something to do with this as well.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:44:38 CDT
Let's clear some stuff up for those of you who are a little under-educated on the subject.A plea bargain is just that, a bargain. Two sides that haggle over an item or service until they come to an agreement that's mutually beneficial. This agreement doesn't have to include anything listed in the indictment. One example of this is that many murder cases are plead down to manslaughter charges.
Second, I've been trying to get people to understand how broken the plea bargaining system is for over six years now. It simply shouldn't exist. The only reason it does is because it saves the goverment a lot of money when they try to prosecute people that shouldn't have been prosecuted in the first place.
As to this particular agreement, he will plead to perjury. Obviously perjury is in no way related to a sexual crime, and as such he will not register as a sex offender.
He will serve only five years of adjudicated probation as long as there are no mishaps. Of course, being a former Sheriff means that he probably knows people in the probation department. As such, the only way he'd have a mishap is if he committed another crime. If there is a mishap he will serve 10 years of probation. As long as there is no new crime committed (because he can't be prosecuted for anything related to this past crime) then his record will be expunged.
This does not, however, mean that he will have a squeaky clean record. His arrest for the charges of sexual assault of a child will still be on his record. The only real difference is that he doesn't have to list this in a job application.
Now for the good news: the judge doesn't have to accept this horrid plea bargain. He is well within his right to make both sides go back to the bargaining table and start over from scratch. If he makes that decision, none of the things in this article will be admissible in court (ie, they can't bring up that he would have plead guilty) if they go to trial. I fully believe that in this situation, any competent judge would declare this plea void. Please note the word competent.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:35:17 CDT
Ratcliff supporters: If you really knew him you knew about his sexual preferences. You may not have known about his age preference for partners. If you have not been on drugs, in jail, and scared to death, how can you know what the victim thought or felt. YES I SAID VICTIM. If this plea works I am very disapointed in the entire Victoria legal system, excuse me entire Victoria legal set up.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:33:16 CDT
Let's just say I won't say anymore.....I don't mean to make it sound as if I don't think it is a HORRIBLE thing that man did to that young boy. I'm talking about when the young boy became a grown man and started make his own decisions. As to how I know about this.......I won't say anymore.....
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:30:53 CDT
Disgusting. Little Tommy O'Connor should have his mustache privileges revoked for providing red carpet treatment for an admitted child molestor. That jail Lt. with the umbrella..i wanna see him keep the rain off every child molestor that walks out of that building. I cant believe the treatment they offer the trash that taints the badges they wear and the office O'Connor puts his wannabe behind in. Makes ya sick.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:24:37 CDT
wasnt the victim a child when the first offence happened? How can a child not be a poor victim? Shame on you.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:23:09 CDT
noecando,how do you know what the victim did or that he used all of this to his advantage?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:21:52 CDT
Drippng with Sarcasm!!!!!!!!!!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:20:49 CDT
I just think all of this is a crock of you know what. This man committed a crime..I dont care who he is or what position he served here in Victoria. He deserves to get some punishment, he should have to register as a sex offender because that is what he is. He is a dirty, sick, disgusting man and all of these people standing behind him and helping him should be ashamed of themselves. It might be your son he's after next!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:17:15 CDT
I just have to say, I knew Ratcliff would plea to something that wouldn't admit to anything. But did I read correctly that a condition of the plea agreement is that he has to admit that he lied under oath about having sexual relations with the victim when he was a minor????And I can tell all of you this, NO this is not fair. NO this system did not work in this case and NO>>>>> There is NO POOR VICTIM in this case. The "victim" worked the system while in jail.....he knew EXACTLY what he was doing....getting whatever he wanted while locked up.So please don't feel so sorry for him.....He knew what he was doing just as well as Ratcliff
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:17:09 CDT
I've said it before numerous times.....But, where was D.Eaves in all of this???? Is he no longer a suspect himself, if he no longer holds office?? Just wandering since no one talks about him or his involvement.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:14:41 CDT
This is good ol Victoria!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:14:21 CDT
How disgusting! I see he needs help getting down the stairs and a jailer is providing him even with an umbrella what a slap in the face! This really sickens me!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:06:41 CDT
WOWWOW
WOW
What a complete freaking scam ! Justice does not reside in Victoria County, it's merely a whore that can be bought / sold / traded to fit a your needs (if you run with the right group of people).
Seriously, the entire county and city gov't just need to leave and let the hard working citizens start over.
Victoria Co. justice system has yet again proved itself to be a huge failre.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 13:02:37 CDT
The sad part about this is the victim will probably never have any trust with law enforcment. This is a horrible way for this case to end. To the victim: Keep your head up!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:51:29 CDT
I think everyone should get a job as a police officer, or mayor, or sheriff in this town because as long as you are one of "them" then anything you do is OK! I just dont understand why nothing can be done about this. Why isn't anyone higher up investigating all of these things. All of this is just going to be pushed under the rug, and the taxpayers are going to end up paying for everyones legal matters. What is this town coming to???
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:50:23 CDT
U gotta be kiddin'....So Ratcliff gets a slap on the wrist and the indicted officials could get felony time?
So much for getting an out of town prosecutor and "impartial" justice.
Wow, I'm glad I moved....
And really, where are the Ratcliff supporters in these comments? What do they have to say about this? I'm really curious...
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:49:47 CDT
tstorm, "I wonder why people have little or no faith in the system"
in your first post, were you being sarcastic?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:47:48 CDT
The Perjury Charge came from the same place the P.R. Bond came from.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:47:26 CDT
I agree watchingyou, this is very sad. Sad for the victim and his family. I find it absolutely outrageous that this is the offer that was made by the prosecution!!!! Where is the justice in this? If the judge agrees to this agreement, Ratcliff could have a squeaky clean record in as little as 5 years!!! Disgusting!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:46:15 CDT
I wonder why people have little or no faith in the system.Law enforcement taking care of law enforcement. At least when the Mafia does this kind of thing they try to keep it out of the public eye. These Law enforcement people do this and go happily back to work the next day not even realizing they did anything wrong.
Same thing with the cops that got off scott free from beating the Heck out of Rodney King.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:45:56 CDT
What,a perjury charge? Where in the heck did that charge come from?
Yeah,I bet he won't have to reg as a sex offender either.
ummm,just taking a guess,it happened before the new registry law...
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:39:35 CDT
This is sad. Ratcliff deserves what every other pedophile or sex offender gets. He is a guilty S.O.B. All he is going to get is a slap on the hand because of who he is. That is a damn shame!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:37:56 CDT
I can't believe what I'm reading. Ratcliff plead guilty to "WHAT!"? What does that have to do with the sex crime he committed? The entire community knows he is a gay pedophile that is getting away with it because he once was a "law enforcement officer". He wasn't following the laws so he couldn't have enforced them either. I am so mad over this plea mess...is this justice? We the people put our trust in this man to do his job that we elected him to do NOT play around while at the jail. What is this world coming to!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:34:02 CDT
Here is what KAVU is reporting on their website:Both the prosecution and the defense in the Michael Ratcliff case have presented a plea bargain agreement to visiting Judge Mark Luitjen in a Victoria courtroom. The agreement is that Ratcliff will plead guilty to aggravate perjury. Part of the agreement is that Ratcliff receives 10 years deferred adjudication, and is prohibited from visiting any internet chat rooms and is prohibited from visiting any pornographic Websites. The defendant will also waive his right to appeal the plea or sentence imposed in this case if the plea bargain is accepted by the court. The prosecution also agrees not to prosecute any criminal offenses that were the subject matter of this investigation. Ratcliff was indicted by a grand jury last October for Aggravated Sexual Assault of a teenage boy, Criminal Solicitation of a Minor and Criminal Conspiracy. The alleged incident happened back in 1997 when Ratcliff was the Victoria County Sheriff. At the time of the indictment, Ratcliff was office manager of the District Attorney’s office, hired by D.A. Stephen Tyler. Meanwhile, other indictments have been handed down by a grand jury. Victoria Mayor Will Armstrong, Police Chief Bruce Ure, Police Lieutenant Ralph Buentello and former City Attorney David Smith have all been charged as a result of the Ratcliff investigation. Mayor Armstrong is charged with Misuse of Official Information and Criminal Conspiracy. Chief Ure, Lt. Buentello and David Smith are charged with Misuse of Official Information, Aggravated Perjury, Tampering With A Witness, Official Oppression and Criminal Conspiracy. This is all centered on the Ratcliff sex scandal, and private discussions with Victoria Advocate newspaper reporters and management on the nature of the grand jury investigation. According to the indictments, those discussions involved information that hadn’t been released yet by the grand jury. The Tampering With A Witness counts involve the key witness, who is also the alleged victim, in the Ratcliff case.
As part of today’s plea agreement, the State would not be opposed to an early determination after the defendant completes 5 years of his term of community supervision.
The court will convene again on August 15th at which the judge will render his decision on the agreement.
As I understand it, in (10) years and possibly only (5) years it will be be as if it never happened for Ratcliff, if he complies with all the requirements.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:27:30 CDT
WOW! Unbelievable!
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:22:35 CDT
If he pleads to just the agg perjury charge and gets nothing else, then no, he will NOT have to register as a sex offender because that in itself is not a sex crime...Where are all the people who kept backing up Ratcliff? Guess you all just put your foot in your mouths, huh? He's a nasty ***** pedophile and he'll probably get out of all of this with probation, a slap on the wrist...and then let out to victimize more children...
Justice prevails? Not this time...
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:17:50 CDT
Let me get this straight: Ratcliff ADMITS to lying under oath to the grand jury. He ADMITS that he lied about having sex with a minor, but the sexual assault accuasations don't enter into this? This is an outrage! The victim was just victimized again! What a slap in the face, and then to postpone the punishment phase for another 5 or 6 weeks? There is no justice in this.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:14:14 CDT
He won't have to register as a sex offender, or will he?Only a perjury conviction.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:05:43 CDT
What a scoop! Great coverage! Keep up this kind of reporting.
Thu Jul 3, 2008 12:01:32 CDT
When will the judge state the punishment.... when did Ratcliff lie to the grand jury? I don't remember that as being part of the indictment in October?
Thu Jul 3, 2008 11:58:46 CDT
No, it's more play by play like a sports broadcast. Keep up the good work, Vicad.