For Victoria’s sake?
For Victoria’s sake?
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Thu Jul 3, 2008 22:32:10 CDT
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Let me ask you this: How do you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that the allegations from this young man are absolutely false? Can you reasonably answer that? No. By the same token, I cannot reasonably answer that the allegations are absolutely true. You can CHOOSE to DISBELIEVE the victim because he is/was an addict and judge him by that and that alone. I, however, CHOOSE to BELIEVE him. I understand that addiction is a DISEASE and hope that he will find peace.
Can people who were victims be "normal" and lead productive lives, never missing a beat? Yes! Absolutely. Can victims who were on a self-destructive path find redemption and turn it around and lead productive, normal, law-abiding lives? You betcha --- with help! I'm living proof of that!
So, Southtexas, you and I will just realize that we have different view points on this issue. I respect your opinion.
You don't KNOW anything. You don't KNOW that this kid was ever molested as a minor.
And I WAS molested as a minor....twice as a matter of fact, once when I was 8 years old and once when I was 13. Did it ruin my life...NO. Did it effect my way of thinking...YES. My Dad whose youth was worse than you can even imagine told me, "You choose to be a victim....when bad things happen to you, you choose to make them positive or negative."
Granted it is not easy, and when kids don't have support and positive influences sometimes it is next to impossible. However I worked with emotionally disturbed teenagers and saw that many of them use and manipulate no matter how much attention and support they receive.
My heart goes out to this young man and I, too, pray for him. However now he is a man, an addicted and self destructive young man. And if you know anything about addiction....you know that it can totally wipe out any conscience you have....you will lie, cheat, steal, destroy those who love you for a fix.
RG - Kudos to you for holding a job and paying your taxes and trying to stay on the right side of the law --- You sound like a stand up kinda guy.
But ---- as a child/teen, have you ever been a victim of a sex crime? If you haven't, let me tell you what can sometimes happen, and I'm telling you from experience: in cases of molestation, usually the perp is someone you trust. A neighbor, a relative, a friend of the family, a priest, a pastor, a deacon, a youth group leader, a teacher. over the course of time, the perp has the victim convinced that if he/she tells, the victim will be in trouble.... I didn't tell my parents because I was afraid they wouldn't love me anymore. The abuse had gone on for years before I had the guts to stand up to my perp and threaten him. I still felt tainted and worthless on the inside, but still had to act like I was "normal". It was like leading a double life. I used to cut myself and didnt' understand why. I would sabotage relationships because I didn't feel I deserved anything good. I abused alcohol so I didnt' have to THINK about what had happened. Oh and because my parents had NO CLUE.... they thought there WAS something crazy in me and sent me to counselling. Did I tell about my abuse. No. I didn't. Not until I was an adult. I nearly self-destructed. I went to rehab, I joined a 12-step program, and I got counselling that only addressed my abuse. I worked through it. No, my perp was never prosecuted. It still lurks in the shadows of my life. But it knows that it is being watched, and it knows I am a strong person now.
Ratcliff's actions led to the victim making the decisions that he has. Now, even though Ratcliff will NOT receive the punishment he deserves, he will be punished. He has been outed, and will be leaving Victoria. His life is ruined even though he isn't going to prison... I'd say: It's just.
I pray for the victim and hope that he will be able to heal, and turn his life around.
I believe myself to be contributing member of society in that I hold a job, pay taxes out of my paycheck so that burdens of society like your so-called victim can attend drug rehab programs, and I try not to get in trouble with the law. Your victim apparently couldn't fill all three requirements. There are thousands upon thousands of stories concerning rape victims who do their very best to make the very best of there lives regardless of what happened to them in the past. Go sell your story to Oprah or Montel because I'm not buying it.
Checks sympathy meter: Nope, nada.
Of course they were not going to let Ratcliff know and were going to get court orders to possibly follow him, tap his phone even, hack into his e-mail accounts....all sorts of things to try to substantiate that Sheriff Ratcliff was indeed a child molestor which would help support the 10 year old accusation. Did they find anything? Obviously not, because they went with the rather flimsy evidence they had....thus the plea bargain.
Sun Jul 6, 2008 05:42:32 CDTNuno, I added events you mentioned into the timeline.In 1997 a 15 year old boy is allegedly sexually assaulted by Ratcliff. Never talks about it to anyone.In 1999 there is a case on record where the same 17 year old kid accuses another man, not Ratcliff, of sexually assaulting him. In that same year, the kid is talking to HOPE of S. Texas, about abuse but doesn't talk about Ratcliff.
dog you still don't have a clue .stop trying to tie these to cases to the same person it isn't gone happen because you rely have no clue as to wtf you talking about .the 2 cases are very different . THEY ARE NOT THE SAME ACCUSER AS YOU SAY . I know . like i said it was my brother that accused holter in 99 .. the accuser in rat's case was a freaking witness , as was i but didn't get to take the stand . but see it's people like you . that like to think they now the truth when they really don't so plz stop trying to tie the same person as being the accuser in both cases ....
Hell if your so smart . plz go to the court house , pull the file then look me up and I'll tell you the truth . Of how it messed my life up yr's after my bother had the balls to finally come forward 3 yr's later . have being abused for 5+ yr's . and you now i Carry guilt around with me everyday knowing . that i could have stopped it way before it ever happened to my bother , because it happen to me a few times .
SO really do me a big favor and stop while you-think your ahead . i'm sure you would like to call me a lier , and what not but i now the truth. do you . ( i don't think so ) .
BTW he was acquitted because are A@@hole of a sheriff at the time failed to do his job . being part of the VICTORIA -CPTOV ( child predator team of Victoria ) . And the city ties holter had/has . BUt like i said you no not the truth so plz just stop .
digalitldper and southtexas...
Maybe you two are just TOO FORWARD...
You do seem VERY DEMANDING at times
Maybe you "Asked" to be assaulted!
How do we know you didn't ask for it to cover up for something that you did wrong??
(That's just my way of trying to be on Tyler's side and trying to see things from his perspective)
How do we know that Tyler did not know about the Ratcliff investigation until the hiring was already in progress? Ratcliff probably knew moments after Tyler learned of the investigation.
And why isn't anyone asking why it may have taken 4 months for the DPS investigator to contact the alleged perp? Isn't that part of an investigation---asking the accused if he did it?
Silentlamb persists in false claims, so I repost this again. Actually the story was as follows:
*********************
"Tyler exercised good judgment"
February 09, 2008 - 6:40 p.m.
Good judgment. Victoria District Attorney Stephen Tyler acted wisely Thursday in asking a judge to appoint a special prosecutor in the Michael Ratcliff case. Tyler told the judge he thought he could be called as a witness in the case against Ratcliff, his former chief of staff.Tyler hired Ratcliff in December 2006. Ten months later, Ratcliff was indicted on aggravated sexual assault of a teenage boy. The accuser in the case says the assaults occurred while Ratcliff served as Victoria County sheriff.The public rightly wants to see this case openly and thoroughly investigated and prosecuted. If Tyler stayed as the prosecutor of the case, he was in a no-win situation. No conviction would be severe enough to satisfy a suspicious public. An acquittal would have people clamoring for the district attorney’s head.Instead, visiting Judge Mark Luitjen of San Antonio will appoint a special prosecutor who has no ties to this judicial system. Given Ratcliff’s longtime tenure as sheriff, that’s a critical step toward restoring the public’s confidence.The new prosecutor will have a heavy burden, but at least he’ll be starting with what this sensational case needs.A clean slate.
*****************************
If your claim is true maybe the Advocate can ask the Judge who picked the prosecutor, or ask McDonald who selected him and if he ever spoke or heard of Tyler before he was selected as the prosecutor.
"Conspiracy" and "cover-up" .... same song with no proof!!
True, Oh, most definately the investigation began before Tyler even was elected! Read Related stories next to this article under RATCLIFF TIMELINE:
2006: Texas Department of Public Safety begins investigation into sexual assault accusations against Ratcliff. Tyler was elected in November 2006 and took office in January 2007.
2007: Became DA Stephen Tyler’s chief of staff
For many jobs it is difficult to get hired if you are currently under investigation facing possible felony charges. Can you add when Ratcliff was hired by the DA to your timeline?
August 2006--Victim makes outcry and DPS initiates investigation
November 2006--Tyler elected to current position
January 1, 2007--Tyler takes office
May 2007--new police chief hired
June 2008--petition filed to oust DA
July 2008--Ratcliff pleads guilty to lying to the grand jury about having sex with victim
Where did you get lost and decide this victim has anything to do with attempts to remove Tyler? That is a real stretch.
southtexas--the victim was not facing any jail time at the time of outcry, but he was on probation. There's a difference. As far as when the alleged act happened--go back and re-read the Ratcliff indictments. They clearly state when this happened. Did Tyler get the dates wrong? Ratcliff may have been the Sheriff, but he had no control over any juvenile facility at that point. So, I don't understand how you think this was because he was fixing to go to jail.
It is just a real shame that our society continues to blame victims, especially child victims for things that adults do to them. It is so completely ludicrous--to think that children control adults! That a child could manipulate an adult----a law enforcement officer at that!!! I'd be embarrassed to admit that.
JMO--you are correct--Ratcliff is a liar.
And, Dig--are you saying that your counseling file was spead all over town by WHO? If that is so, why didn't you file a complaint?
Dig never even remotely insinuated that all teachers molest their kids...no way. It does happen....for the most part I think the kids or actually young adults are very active in instigating the crime....and people please don't jump all over me about a 16 or 17 year old still being a child. I know that. I also know how seductive both the girls and the boys can be at that age and even younger. When I was in high school in was almost common for high school girls to secretly date the young teachers. Was it wrong...sometimes probably, however I do know two couples with 40 year marriages that started out that way.
Now when you talk about the younger children....people who prey on elementary and junior high are ALWAYS PERVERTS!!! However that is not saying that these kids don't know what power they weld with a report of inappropriate touching about a teacher they do not like. Everyone one of them have watched MSNBC's Justice series and have seen people arrested for just talking online to underaged individuals.
It is an issue with many sides and many considerations.
I've got a problem with you, dig, insinuating that teachers; molest their students. I AM a victim too, dig, a victim of false accusations that were turned around as a direct attack upon me as a result of my turning in two referrals on students who were vulgar-mouthed and said awful things to me that would make you blush in front of my whole class. The two boys were sons of the top tier of Victoria at the time. I was humiliated and retaliated upon for reporting it as sexual harassment towards myself. I lost my job. I lost my friends. I went through alot of depression but I never lost faith. God has seen me through all of that and brought me this far by faith. Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord. I am happier now than ever.
Oh, and I've been teaching going on 11 years since. I've been nominated for teacher of the year twice and won it, too. I'm good to all my students and treat them like my own children. I've NEVER laid a hand on anyone other than my darling husband. I've never been arrested, either,
Sat Jul 5, 2008 12:14:26 CDT
In 1997 a 15 boy is allegedly sexually assaulted by Ratcliff. Never talks about it to anyone.
In 1999 there is a case on record where the same 17 year old kid accuses another man, not Ratcliff, of sexually assaulting him. In that same year, the kid is talking to HOPE of S. Texas, about abuse but doesn't talk about Ratcliff.
In 2000, the now 18 year old man is subpoenaed by PROSECUTORS as a witness in Marvin Hoelter's indecency trial. It is alleged he didn’t appear in court and Hoelter was acquitted of the charge.
In 2003, the 21 year old is convicted on felony drug charges and put on probation. As part of his probation, he must attend counseling and still doesn’t mention Ratcliff. After he repeatedly fails to live up to his probation terms and is faced with actual jail time as a known homosexual, he then mention’s Ratcliff.
You sir need the get your facts straight . Mr holter wasn't acquitted because he didn't show . i now .i was in court that everyday with my brother . Having to look at a man that not only molested my brother but me ....... And yes i personally know the person . accuseing ratcliffe . SO before you speak get your facts ......a victim is a victim weather you want to believe him are not .......funny thing when you have friends in high places ............
JUST LIKE MARVIN HOLTER WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE GUILDY OF MOLSTION CHILDREN . JUST AS RATCLIFE WILL ALWAYS BE A PROV.
P.s if you only knew what i now about Mr holter . you would fill sorry for any child he and his wife ever folsterd . and was Meany .............
and rat is just as guilty as any .
STX,Yes,I do know it happened before this(jail time) and if I know the victim I will not tell you that.
There's no reason for me to read what you wrote at the bottom of this forum for I am posting my own opinion based on my thoughts and not your opinions.Thanks.
Are you sure this happened before this young man was in trouble with the law? How do you know that? I think perhaps you are wrong.
This Sheriff bullied this juvenile from the time Ratcliff posed as a female over the Internet.Then he forces the boy to do sexual acts inside of a vehicle.
I'd be scared to tell as well if I were in the victims shoes.
What gets me is first Ratcliff lied and said he never had a sexual relationship with this juvenile then he pleads guilty to perjury for lying under oath.Now,Ratcliff is claiming that it was consensual.Sounds like a bunch a bull to me.I know if I was accused of something I didn't do I would have NO reason to lie under oath for I would take it to the Supreme Court or what ever necessary to prove my innocence.
One thing we do know is,Ratcliff is a liar and some of you need to be reminded over and over again that this happened before the victim was in trouble with the law!
And no....I am not saying that every young victim of sexual abuse is lying....not even close. I am saying that I have worked with emotionally disturbed kids and that sometimes even those that are truly victimized in the beginning learn to use the victimization as a tool to get what they want or even make up stories of other events to manipulate.
Most assuredly those with substance abuse problems use all these tactics to get what they need and what they want. A kid or an adult needing a fix will tell you anything, do anything, sell anything, abandon any friend or relative, turn against his parents, steal from those who love him to get a fix. I've seen it over and over and over again.
Right now, the victim in this case is incarcerated for his crimes. He knows that he has to accept responsiblilty for his actions. But you can't say that just because someone made bad choices that they are liars.
And if you think that young people and for that matter even victims do not falsify stories for attention, for sympathy, to get themselves out of trouble, to blackmail adults in power...then you are wrong....dead wrong.
It is a fact....and I have seen it on more than one occasion where victims learn to use the perks of being a "victim" to their advantage.....that is a known part of the syndrome. Whether this kid was a victim or not, he is most certainly a kid with a lot of problems who has turned into a man with a lot of problems and my heart goes out to him and his family. However I am fearful that he may have ruined a lot of other people's lives with the manipulative behavior he has learned to use to his advantage.
I think it's disgusting that some of you are blaming the victim and demanding that his name be published... why? so you people who don't believe him can go harrass him and ridicule him? He may not be a minor now, but there is still pain from this assault.
You people can just go on believing that he "made it up" because he is a junkie, and has a criminal record... No! He turned to that lifestyle because of what Ratcliff did! Ratcliff took the plea bargain to stay out of jail, yes... but let me pose this question .... if Ratcliff is innocent of ALL charges/allegations, why is it, that part of this plea agreement, is that Ratcliff must NOT be on internet chatrooms nor view porn??? (the viewing porn stuff should be applicable to ALL men, IMO) To me, that little addendumn is very telling.
You're kidding right!!!! Think about what you are saying. How many male kids do you think are going to stand up and say I had sex with a man?
Are you that far out of touch that you could think a boy would tell someone?
I guess the old saying that "it takes all kinds" is right. thewaywardwind kind and then the rest of us.
JC wrote: You scum bucket backers game for that?
I never voted for Ratcliff or supported him, like some of the folks here did, that are teed off at him. You elected him how many times? However JC, that kind of talk is uncalled for.
I first recived a phone call almost eleven years ago in reference to what Ratcliff along with others were doing to young boys in Victoria (Particualry in Northcrest or a neighborood near by). I contacted the FBI field office in Houston and reported what I was told. Trust me, there is proof other than hear say, both on paper and otherwise. It sure would be nice if the backers of Ratcliff and his buddies could be placed on one definative side, so that when it is time to PAY they would be responsible along with the deviants, rather than the whole town! You scum bucket backers game for that?
Just because he chose McDonald means very little. He couldn't advise nor hold McDonalds hand during the process.
Hey Tyler if you're reading this, please hound the Police Chief, Mayor, and City Attorney into the ground. When their Lawyers start whining and begging for a plea, give no quarter. If they want to play, they have to pay!!!
"Hey little boy, you want some candy? I got some in my pocket."
BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Maybe the Advocate doesn't give the other criminals in Victoria the same amount of coverage as they have done for the Fatal Four - so no one else knows that there are still other trials going on and other criminals being convicted.
So to that I say...Way to go, Steve-o! Keep up the good work!!
JMO - you are correct - this is far from being "For Victoria's sake". Maybe it is for Ratcliff's sake, it may seem.
Although, it is definitely for tyler's sake, as he is Victoria's DA; carrying the weight of the world on his shoulder's; expected to uphold the "letter of the law" (as Victorian's SHOULD expect of him). Thus, relieving Victoria's streets of deviants, and thugs, and such.
However, he was 'hit' from within, by one of his own people, no less; the man is bruised. Scorned, if you will. This is personal business (albeit a contradiction in terms).
Oh, and has anyone noticed that there are far more than '4' law-breakers/criminals/sexual-deviants/thugs (the list goes on) on the streets - right NOW?? Yeah.......good job steve'o.
Taken from Tylers letter to the Editor:
I ran on being a prosecutor, not a politician or a media personality. I promised to seek justice for the community, victims, and defendants. I swore to uphold the whole law, even when it makes prosecution more difficult. I also promised to treat all people the same, regardless of wealth, position, race, color, or creed. This office works every day to keep these promises.
Steve Tyler
It's true.....steve'o is JUST a man.
With that clear, human nature takes charge over ANY office held (obviously - Ratcliff, the four, and the list goes on) has proven that to be true.
tyler is NO different (as far as steve is concerned - this is ALL personal). he is just the lucky one...however, I hear that luck runs short, at times.
Didn't the Mayor attempt to involve himself in matters that are absolutely none of his concern.
I was also waiting on a few of you to enlighten the rest of us with the personal reasons that tyler would have to pull these punches, as it were.
Taker's? Anyone?
This has nothing to do with Victoria's sake.
If anyone cared for us citizens of Victoria they would lock this pedophile up behind bars (regardless of whom the man is)to keep Victoria's children Safe and out of harms way.
IMO,it's for Ratcliff's sake.
All of you lovers of the criminals (Mayor, Police Chief, City Attorney, Ratcliff, and the rest of that ilk) need to wake up and realize that you have chosen the wrong team to support.
Every once in a while the good guys win. Go Tyler!!!
"...do the math when the next four take their plea deals and/or get their convictions...
"VCC - Yes, they too may be given a plea, as their actions earned them an endictment (not yet convicted - if you will) although, they clearly broke the law (as the letter reads).
As Ratcliff abused his law enforcement status, he was fortunate enough to have been offered this plea. It may not be as "easy" (yes, Ratcliff was pampered, unintentionally - MAYBE); but the next four up for review of their indictments may not be so fortunate. All for the cause of weighing out truths and it being the right thing to do.
Perspective is not always so clear to one, as it is to another.
obviously, it is another perspective to consider = had you given it a rational-second.
I won't hold it against you...now, go get some rest, as always being on the defense is obviously a tiresome job.
"...cover up on Tyler's part. That was the whole basis for Tyler recusing himself since they were implicating him in all this..." Uhm....NOT!
At the risk of mere opposition (not too high a gamble) I can remember tyler NOT wanting, or [initially] thinking it necessary to recuse himself from this case --- VicAd can produce a past posting on it --- thus, it was suggested and practically demanded, but NOT by tyler...no,no.
Additionally, with the more than OBVIOUS "conflict of interest" involved in the case, the endless reasons steve'o found those "four meddling kids" quickly needed to be indicted (or, made to 'shut-up')....well...do the math and it SHOULD add up (for most of you).
Back-up a bit...
BECAUSE OF Ratcliff's deviant actions, which should have been under investigation with the DA, tyler has been sweating bullets for many, many months now.
his own reputation was on the line, and that of his entire office. he was not exactly 'for' relinquishing his "place" in this very 'personal' matter...OBVIOUSLY.
Hey dig....are you getting as tired of this arm-chair-lawyer-ing as much as I am?
There are so many political authorities out there making their "expert" comments that make me believe we should have plenty of candidates for the next local elections.....or will we? Every year there are so many voices yet when elections roll around there are few candidates, if any other than the incumbents.
Maybe there is a large class of political science majors at UHV now?
Good observation, JMRH. At this point though, indicting Ratcliff for perjury would be a moot point. It'd be useless to indict someone for something they've already pled guilty to.
But boy, I bet Tyler's doin' the
Ernie
And Snakebite, you are right....I do not know that Ratcliff did not do what he is accused of, only the two involved people and God know. You are wrong however...I do know the victim other than what is printed in the paper.
However, I have a great deal more reason to believe that Mike Ratcliff did not have sex with a minor than most people on here have reason to believe that he did.
And NUN....your family would know you and know that you were innocent. They would be the ones encouraging you to end all of this and plead to guilty even if you were not guilty because they love you and know you and know what you are capable of, and molesting children is not on the list....and they would be doing it because they would know that you were sick and destitute...not because of the embarressment to them. However you would think of ending the pain for those you love. I don't know how your family works, but that's the way mine does.
As far as there being other "victims". It seems that when a victim of child abuse comes forth....for example when the Catholic priests were charged, it was only a matter of weeks or days before others had the courage to join them. Where are the other victims? I am sure the DPS and every LE agency involved has tried to find other victims. It is strange that there are none.